127 – Dr. Bob Franks – President & CEO of The Judge Baker Children’s Center & Author of: Be A Better Parent

Transcript:

Dad to Dad 127 Dr. Bob Franks – President & CEO of The Judge Baker Children’s Center & Author of: Be A Better Parent

[00:00:00] Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network is thrilled to be sponsored by Rubin Law. A multi-generational law firm dedicated, exclusively to serving families, raising children with special needs to find out more, go to Rubinlaw.com.

Bob Franks: I mean, it probably was the most profound experience of my life. I really feel that Avery was a gift to me. And I learned so much from her in her short life. And I think one of the biggest lessons she left me is that you can live a day or you could live a hundred years. And your life has value and meaning and purpose.

Tom Couch: That’s David Hirsch’s guests this week. Dr. Bob Franks, Dr. Franks is a nationally recognized child psychologist and is the president and CEO of the Judge Baker Children’s Center. He’s also the father of twin teenage boys. And a daughter who sadly passed away shortly [00:01:00] after birth 18 years ago. And we’ll hear his incredible story on this Special Fathers Network data dad podcast. Here’s your host, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad podcast.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network is a Dad to Dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children connect with [00:02:00] mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support dads, to find out more, go to 21stcenturydads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we’d be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com. Groups and search Dad to Dad.

Tom Couch: So now let’s listen in on this conversation between Bob Franks and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Dr. Bob Franks of Medfield, Massachusetts. Who’s a father of twin boys, president and CEO of the Judge Baker Children’s Center. A nationally recognized expert in child psychology is on the clinical faculty of Harvard medical school.

And more recently author of the book be a better parent 10 strategies for being the best you can be for your child. Bob, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the special father’s.

Bob Franks: Thank you so much, David.

David Hirsch: Glad to be here. Your wife Brenda have been married for 25 [00:03:00] years and of the proud parents of twin teenage boys who were adopted from Columbia.

Very sadly, your daughter, Avery born 18 years ago died shortly after birth due to underdeveloped lungs. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Bob Franks: I grew up in a relatively small town outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So I’m from Western Pennsylvania. I, I grew up really part of that culture.

In many ways, my grandfather worked in the steel mills. He was an immigrant. My father, uh, worked for Westinghouse electric corporation. We lived in a community that was a fairly homogenous community. Um, I went to Catholic schools, um, Catholic grade schools and high schools. Um, I said, I sometimes joke that given that I also went to Catholic colleges, I’ve had more Catholic education than most priests.

Youngest of three and we’re sort of spread out. So I have a sister who’s four years older than me and a sister who’s nine years [00:04:00] older than me. So I was the only boy and the baby of the family. I also was the youngest child with, uh, my cousins as well. So. I always sort of have this internal, no matter how old I get and how great I get.

I still think of myself as the young one.

David Hirsch: Well, there’s something about being the baby of the family, trying to keep up with your older siblings at some level. So, um, I’m sort of curious to know, how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Bob Franks: You know, my dad was a pretty amazing person and we were very different people.

I remember when I was very little. You took a lot of pride in trying to show me the things that he was interested in. And he was a Hunter and he was a fisherman and an outdoors man. And I didn’t have as much of an interest in those things. Although I love the outdoors and have a great appreciation of nature.

And, you know, I have one story that stands out in my mind, which is that he taught me how to hunt. And actually when I was 12 years old, got a 22 rifle [00:05:00] for my birthday. And we went and behind our house into the woods. And I remember I, um, shot a bird that was in a tree and the bird fell to the ground. I went over to look at it.

I started to cry and I looked at my dad and I said, I’m never doing this again. And so what was interesting was my dad and I, um, you know, I actually was pretty academic kid. I kind of, you know, refer to myself as sort of a, I was a bit of a nerd growing up. My sport was tennis playing up. So a lot of things that were just completely foreign to my dad.

And then I ended up deciding to study psychology. He really encouraged me also to study business. When I was in college, I had a much closer relationship with my mom. My dad was a much more traditional guy. But he showed that he loved me in lots of ways. And, you know, I would actually say very recently, my dad’s been gone now for about six years.

And very recently had this sort of this revelation when I [00:06:00] was communicating with some family members that my dad had a really, really. Difficult childhood himself. And when I think about the fact that he was able to overcome that, you know, I could say something that a lot of people can’t say, and my dad never laid a hand on me and in my whole childhood, um, he w he could be stern and he could be, um, you know, I remember he would give some very long lectures.

But he was mostly a quiet man. He was introspective. He had a huge library and he loved to read and he was much more introverted. Um, and I’m, uh, I’m a much more naturally extroverted person, but I also had this wonderful gift of, as we got older and as he got older, um, I think we both got to know and appreciate each other for who we are.

And in some ways, I think the very, my very best relationship with my dad was in the last years before he died. And I feel very, very fortunate for that. And he, you know, I think he really left me with a wonderful gift. Being able to share that closeness [00:07:00] with him in those years. And. To this day, my dad was the kind of guy who could fix anything.

We never called a repairman. He was incredibly gifted mechanically. And when something breaks around my house, my first instinct is to pick up the phone and call my dad, even though he’s not there. Cause he would always have the answer to every question.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well thank you for sharing. Um, it sounds if I could paraphrase that you had an evolving relationship with your dad and you became closer to him toward the end of his life and uh, Even beyond that, you look at him maybe in a different light than you did as a younger person, as a dad yourself.

And now that he’s passed. And I think each of us, uh, probably has some, you know, if we do reflect on our relationships with our parents, it looks differently from different perspectives. You know, if you can put yourself in the shoes of your parents at different ages, I can relate to what you said about your dad had a heart growing up without you going into any detail.

But my dad, um, [00:08:00] And the family moved from Nazi Germany in 1938 when he was seven years old, he was an only child and the family just had to push the restart button. I can’t even imagine what that was like for my grandfather or my dad to sort of go through what a lot of people at that point in time did.

So thank you for sharing. So I’m wondering if there’s one or two things one year. Think about your dad beyond what you mentioned, uh, takeaways, uh, lessons that you learned, important lessons that come to mind? You

Bob Franks: know, I think my dad taught me that you could always figure out a solution to something. He was incredibly.

Innovative. And, uh, he was a really incredible problem solver. So I sometimes joke that I spent a lot of years when I was growing up holding a flashlight for him when he was, um, fixing things. But what w what was really interesting [00:09:00] about that was he had this amazing workshop and he had all sorts of things that he would collect, you know, CA jars of, you know, washers and bolts and nuts, and, you know, All different types of gadgets, every tool you can imagine.

So when he was confronted with a challenge, it was amazing to watch his wheels turn in his ingenuity because he would always, you know, figure out a solution. And it’s so ironic that I’m talking about this today, because just this morning, I had a conversation with my son. Who was frustrated last night because he couldn’t log on to his virtual classroom.

And he was getting very overwhelmed by that. And I just had a conversation with him when I said, you know, I want to talk to you about what happened. And I said, you know, when we’re confronted with challenges in life, it’s really important for us to not get stuck, but to figure out another strategy and another solution.

And it’s funny that I tell that story now, because I realized that’s probably a lesson that I learned from my

David Hirsch: dad. Well, the image that comes to mind when you were describing your dad, It was MacGyver. [00:10:00] He is. So

Bob Franks: my dad is MacGyver. It is so true. That is exactly who he was. Yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty amazing to watch him.

It really was.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. So, um, I’m wondering, uh, under the banner of, uh, father figures, uh, did you know your grandfathers at all? Did they play a role in your

Bob Franks: life? So my, my father’s father died before I was born. So I never knew him. My mother’s father. I actually get emotional just thinking about him because he was such an incredibly important person to me.

I called him Pappy. He was an immigrant from Slovakia, and I realized, in retrospect, he spoke with an accent, but it never sounded like an accent to me. He was this really amazing combination of strength and gentleness. So, you know, he worked in a steel mill. So he, he, I mean, I remember him doing like pull ups on a tree when I was growing up and he was very physically fit, but he was also this incredibly gentle person [00:11:00] who would sing to us and tell us stories.

But the most important thing that he gave me was that I may have been a little bit different from the rest of my family. Um, But he always believed in me and he was steadfast and that I can even remember, you know, him saying to my mom, don’t you worry about Bobby? He’s going to be okay. You know? And, uh, he was a very, uh, special person to me.

And, um, he also was an incredible gardener. And, um, spent a lot of time in his garden. It was huge. It was like, you know, half of an acre of his backyard. He had filled with every kind of plant and he would work in the garden and he would hum. And sing while he was working in the garden. And almost this like.

Mantra, you know, almost like this, um, uh, meditative way. And he welcomed me into that world and I remember going into his garden and he would teach me things about how to take care of plants and prune them and plant them and care for them in the [00:12:00] school, incredibly thoughtful and gentle way. And so, um, I really, uh, I really miss him.

David Hirsch: You know, it sounds like you had a special relationship with them and, um, thank God for maternal. Grandfather’s at least from my perspective as well. I don’t know where I would be today without my maternal grandfather. Yeah. So, um, I’m thinking about, uh, this amazing education that you’ve had an ongoing education.

Uh, you took a BA in psychology and business management from Boston college, or you have a master’s in community psychology from George Washington university. You have a PhD in counseling, psychology from Boston university. And, uh, you did post-doc. In clinical psychology at Yale university. My PhD

Bob Franks: is from Boston college also.

So not Boston

David Hirsch: university. Well thank you for clarifying that. No worries. It’s amazing. The education that you’ve had and sort of the foundation that you’ve built that has [00:13:00] launched you and the career that you’ve had. And from what I remember, you started out as the director of operations at the national center for children exposed to violence at Yale university.

And then from there, you became the director of the national resource center for child traumatic stress at Duke university and concurrently. You also had a private practice. Focused on a wide range of individual and organizational consulting. And then since June, 2014, you’ve been the president and CEO at the Judge Baker Children’s Center, a Harvard medical school affiliate founded in 1917 and recognized leader in the area of children’s mental health.

It seems like you’ve had this very large variety of experiences that have prepared you. So did you for this incredible opportunity that you’ve had at judge Baker?

[00:14:00] um, I like to talk about special needs because after all, this is a podcast about dads raising kids with special needs. And, um, I was saddened to learn about your daughter, Avery passing away at such a young age shortly after her birth. That must’ve been a very difficult period of time for both you and Brenda.

I don’t want to dwell on that, but, uh, how has that experience shaped you or Brenda from a parenting perspective?

Bob Franks: I mean, it probably was the most profound experience of my life and. I really feel that Avery was a gift to me. And I learned so much from her in her short life. And I think one of the biggest lessons she left me is that you can live a day or you could live a hundred years and your life has value and meaning and purpose.

One of the things that it did [00:15:00] for me was I really realized. How strong and powerful. We are programmed as human beings that it just is. It’s in our spirit. It’s in our soul, it’s in our DNA to parent and protect our children. I know, I know we all, don’t always do that and we all sometimes fall off the path.

But when you are fronted with. Your child that, and you’re watching your child struggle for her life and ultimately die. And you realize the utter helplessness that you have, it’s an incredibly moving experience. And it, you realize how precious life is. I realize how precious life is, how fleeting it can be and how important my job is being.

Apparent was, you know, when seeing this little infant that’s hooked up to all of these machines, only thing that I could do in that moment was actually, um, something my grandfather taught me and that was that I could sing to her, which is what I [00:16:00] did. I sat vigil and sang to her. But that was the only comforting act that I could do as a, as a parent in that moment.

And so when we ultimately decided to adopt our children, um, as infants and we went, had to go through a relatively long path with lots of losses to get there. I perhaps more so than some folks that may not have to work quite as hard for it, or think about it quite as much. I, I cherished every moment of being a dad.

And, uh, from the moment that little bundle was placed into my arms, I knew that was the most important job of my life. And I knew that everything else. Prior to, and subsequent would pale in comparison to the role that I had in helping this little person, this little human being, being their father, [00:17:00] helping them through life.

And, um, my kids sometimes for, you know, Say things to me like, Oh dad, like, I don’t know if we’re ever going to, you know, be able to like, be like you and get a PhD and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, none of that matters. I said, you know, I said, those things are things like those accomplishments mean nothing.

They pale in comparison. I said the most important thing that I’ve ever done in my life as being your dad. And I tell them that as often as I

David Hirsch: can. Yeah, very profound, uh, words of wisdom. Thank you for sharing. I was reflecting on your comments about the loss of Avery and then the blessing that your boys have been to you.

And it’s struck me that Avery created a vacuum. In your life. Right. And, uh, you and Brenda were very intentional about filling that vacuum. Yeah. We’re fortunate to be able to adopt, uh, these, uh, two boys. [00:18:00] And, uh, it just seems like it has more relevance or meaning to you as a result of the journey that you’ve been on.

Bob Franks: Yeah, I think that’s true. And you know, I do want to say, and I know this is a, you know, a podcast for parents and there are some people that are very fulfilled, not being parents for me. The other big lesson that Avery taught me was that out of the absolute darkest depths of despair, there could be light.

And my sons have been that light. The thing that caused me the absolute, probably most pain and loss actually led to the thing that has probably led to my greatest joy. And that’s such an important life lesson that I tried to internalize and be grateful for every day.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for sharing. It’s, uh, been an amazing journey, uh, rooted in some challenging situations.

And like you’d [00:19:00] said earlier, uh, sometimes those experiences are the ones that help shape us. The most.

Bob Franks: One of the things that I’ve seen, particularly in the parents and families that I’ve worked with is that. It’s relentless. It’s every single day of their lives. It is the reality. And we may work with a child for a day or a week, or, but the parents are there every single day with their child.

And. One of the most challenging things is finding that space where they could preserve their, their humanity and who they are and their sense of wellbeing while still being able to be present for their child. And depending upon the severity of their child’s special needs, it may be a lifelong change that occurs for them, um, and having to care for their child.

And I. You know, I think about my brief vigil of singing to my infant [00:20:00] daughter. And I think about someone who sits that vigil for a lifetime, and I’m humbled by parents, um, who are able to do that and the love and the depth of love they have for their child and it, and it does take its toll and it can be challenging.

And so that’s why people like me who are working in helping professions. We know we need to do what we can to support those families. One of the things that we do, and this is sort of taking it to the future as we, we, we have a camp in the summer for kids with ADHD that we started, and these are kids that cannot go to a regular camp.

They get kicked out. They, you know, are there for a day or two and, you know, Well, our little tagline is like, you know, camp Baker is a camp where kids can just be kids. And so we have a lot of staff. We have a lot of support, a very structured program, but parents come to us and they say, Oh my gosh, like, It was like, you know, my, my kids like went [00:21:00] off to camp, you know, to day camps or whatever.

And I get, but my kid went off to camp, but like, it was amazing. Like that’s never happened in my whole life, you know, and to be able to give that gift to a family, I mean, not only the child, but also to the parents is a pretty intense.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, you’ve said a lot of things I might reflect on one is the commitment that these families raising kids with special needs make.

And I’ve been saying for a decade or more now that some of the best parenting that I’ve witnessed is in the special needs community, the commitment, the 24 seven type of commitment that they make without. Relief in many cases is remarkable and you didn’t say this, but as it relates to the camp experience, uh, not only is the camper doing something that their parents would not believe they were capable of doing, but, uh, there this aspect of respite, right.

That the parents get as well. And, uh, it’s really, uh, important on, um, [00:22:00] all around for families to have these experiences. And they’re able to do things that maybe they were thinking that we’re not. Possible. So, uh, it’s, uh, it’s really important work. So thanks for sharing.

Bob Franks: If I may, I’d like to just share one quick thing related to this topic, which is years ago, I was charged with developing a website as a resource for parents.

So I did some focus groups of parents for children with special needs, behavioral health needs of their kids. And I remember asking the question, um, and we were sitting in a circle and I. Ask the parents. I said, you know, when you reflect back over the years with your child, what’s been the most helpful to you.

And I wasn’t sure what to expect. The answer would be, you know, no one named a service or a doctor or a hospital or a program, but without hesitation, one of the parents said definitely other parents. [00:23:00] The most helpful thing has been talking to other parents who have had common struggles and common challenges.

And then they all jumped on in on this and they were like, Oh my, I got it. Yeah. It’s like, that is, that is it. That is the most important thing. And I was amazed by their passion about that. And I tried to never forget that it was such an important moment. Um, and in all the work that I’ve done for curricular programmatic work, I always try to create those connections for families so that we can have that kind of support where families can support other families.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, a point well taken and it sort of goes to the effort that we’re doing with the Special Fathers Network, which is connecting in our case dads with other dads and reminding people that they’re not alone. So, uh, let’s talk about the Judge Baker Children’s Center. Um, the motto it’s on your website is improving care changing lives.

And from what little I remember there was a guy by the name of [00:24:00] Harvey Humphrey Baker, uh, was I think the first judge in the juvenile court in Boston. And, uh, that goes back to the early 19 hundreds. And. Uh, a friend of his, from what I remember was the one that started the judge Baker center. And, uh, uh, it had to do with, uh, kids in delinquency, you know, these bad kids.

And I’m sort of curious to know, uh, what was the catalyst and how has that organization evolved over the years?

Bob Franks: It’s really interesting story, actually. So he was actually the first juvenile court judge in the country was in Chicago and the second was in Boston and it was judge Baker. And so they were carving out this new area of law and, and trying to figure it out.

And there wasn’t really a child system back then. So there were these young people that they call delinquents, mostly boys in Boston, some of them homeless, and they would be sent before judge [00:25:00] Baker. And he was sort of this. Visionary guy. And he was making it up as he went along. Cause this was a new thing.

And he was saying like, I’m not going to throw these kids in jail. I’m not going to like, you know, Whatever, you know, whatever, I don’t even know what their punitive options were back then. He’s like these, you need help. Like these are kids who need help. Like they’re not bad kids. You know, this is a kid who, you know, um, grew up without parents on the street, or this is, or, you know, whatever the situation where, and so he was this visionary and.

Uh, I, as I understand it, amongst his judge friends, people were like, wow, this guy, you know? And so he died at a really early age, I think was around 45 when he died. And that’s why a fellow judge set up the foundation, his honor to help the children of Boston. And it had a broader scope beyond delinquency.

Recognizing that the children, that there were many children in Boston that needed help. And so that was that’s the legacy. Um, and it was actually one of the first, you know, child serving agencies of its kind in the country. [00:26:00] And so even when I was training as a psychologist, I remember that judge Baker was one of the more esteemed child sites.

I remember when I got the job from, you know, the recruiter and my wife really didn’t want to move, but one place that she said she would consider moving as Boston. And so I thought it was one of those calls you get when you’re kind of like, am I being punked? Um, it’s one of those once in a lifetime opportunities and I thought, wow, this is, this is such a wonderful, I can’t not look into this.

And so, you know, fast forward. And then, um, I, I became their next CEO and it’s been a really wonderful experience. I mean, I, I will say that it’s been, I do feel the weight and the responsibility of the history of the center before me. Um, and I really. You know, want to make sure I feel like my responsibility to be the shepherd of the organization.

You know, we [00:27:00] just celebrated our hundred year anniversary into the next hundred years. So I’m really proud of what I’ve accomplished, um, in the past seven years. And I still feel there’s a long way to go.

David Hirsch: Well, the enthusiasm in your voice reminds me that you feel my observation is like, you’re a kid in the candy store, right?

You’ve got all these experiences and you’ve got all these resources that you’re surrounded with. And, uh, it’s really up to you, right. To create the blueprint and then go out and execute to see what can be accomplished. So, um, It seems like you’re at the crossroads of some great things to come. I hope so.

Bob Franks: And then I have to say that, you know, no one does this alone. I have an incredible team. Um, and I’m really blessed to work with really amazing people.

David Hirsch: So let’s switch gears and talk about this amazing book that you written be a better [00:28:00] parent, 10 strategies for being the best you can be for your child. Why did you write the book and who is your target audience?

Bob Franks: You know, it was sort of a book that. I always toyed with writing. And I always had, my day job was always too busy and being a parent was too busy.

Um, and it, I think probably the best response I could give you is as people get to know me, my community or people find out what I do. There’s a lot of times when I’ll be standing by a soccer field or standing in a hockey rink where I spent a lot of my time and apparent will sort of sat up next to me and say, Struggling with this issue.

Like what do you think? Or, you know, they’ll say I noticed that like, this is the one that always, um, I always sort of chuckle at this is that people thinks is a measure of good parenting. And I guess perhaps it is, but I kind of take it for granted. Um, they’ll say your kids are so polite. They say, please, and thank you.

Like I like, how did you get them to do that? And [00:29:00] so I have a lot of those conversations with friends and, you know, uh, colleagues and, and they thought I’d like to, you know, I, I wanted to distill that down into some strategies, but I w I wanted to write it in a conversational way. Very similar to that conversation that I might have with a friend or colleague.

Um, when they were seeking my advice and it’s really a distillation of my knowledge from my training and academic background and professional experience, and probably more importantly, my experience as a parent. Um, and, and that’s why I wrote the book.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well thank you for doing so. As I read through it, I was thinking, where was this book when I, I had young kids.

So I just want to say that, uh, having five children who are now 23 to 31, um, I’m not sure how we got to where we are with some modest level of success. But, uh, I know that if somebody were to read your book, um, as a young parent, uh, that, uh, it would [00:30:00] definitely change the trajectory of their experience.

I’m thinking about advice now, and I’m wondering there’s some important takeaways that come to mind when thinking about parents or specifically dads raising a child with special needs that you can offer.

Bob Franks: I think one of the most important bits of advice that I have for fathers in particular is, um, you know, I think depending upon what generation we are, you know, we’ve all been given a lot of messages about what it means to be a parent and what it means to be a father, what it means to be a man.

We’ve had a lot of those messages given to us. And I think when you’re thinking about being. A parent to your child, if you could approach that with sort of your purest heart, [00:31:00] you know, with that, the sense of full love and acceptance. And embracing that you’re not perfect. We don’t have to be perfect. We can mistakes, but we also need to be able to own them and to grow from them.

One of the things I also say, my book is like the power of being able to say, you’re sorry to your child. And to really own it when we mess up. You’re modeling something really important for them. And you’re also showing them your own vulnerability and that’s so important. So I think one of the biggest things that I could, you know, say as.

You know, being a father, being a parent in general is don’t feel like you need to hide behind this idea of how you think you should be. You know, really think about what your child needs and what you have to offer and, and offer the best of yourself to your child and recognize that there’s going to be limitations to that.

But if you [00:32:00] offer the best of your children, don’t want you to be perfect. They don’t expect you to be perfect, but if you give them the best that you have. They’re going to take that and internalize it and they’re going to flourish and grow.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well stated. One of the things that I often talk about is being present and there’s a number of different ways to be present, um, financially as what the state is most concerned about.

But more importantly, at least I think being present, physically being present, emotionally, being present spiritually for your kids. And you know, it’s not something that we’re all. Equally good at, right. So we each have some strengths and weaknesses and you want to play to your strengths. That’s what I heard you say.

That’s great. I’m wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Bob Franks: You know, I just would just like to end by saying, this has been such a pleasure because, um, you know, I’ve. Done other interviews, and this is a very different [00:33:00] kind of interview. And I very much appreciate the opportunity just to be able to reflect in this way and to share this part of myself, which I don’t often get a chance to do in the way that I have.

And I think it’s, I think it’s really important work that you’re doing. Um, and I think if there’s anything that, you know, that I’ve said that, you know, has touched anyone else. Yeah. You know, I’m, I’m very grateful for that. I just want to say to any of the fathers out there in particular, particularly fathers of kids who do have special needs, um, I really admire you.

I really admire your strength. And even though you may not always feel strong on the inside and your, um, your fortitude.

David Hirsch: That’s beautiful. If someone wants to learn more about, uh, judge Baker, children’s center, your book. Be a better parent, 10 strategies for being the best you can be for your child or to contact you, how would they go about doing that?

Bob Franks: Well, our website for Judge Baker [00:34:00] is jbcc.harvard.edu. So folks can reach us there and I believe there’s some contact information for me on that website. You can also reach me at franksphd@protonmail.com.

David Hirsch: We’ll be sure to include those in the show notes. So it’s as easy as possible for people to follow up.

And I assume that your book is available on Amazon and other locations.

Bob Franks: It is it’s available both as an e-book and as a hard copy.

David Hirsch: Excellent. Bob, thank you for your time. In many insights, as a reminder, Bob is just one of the individuals who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs.

If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice. From a mentor father with a similar situation, your own, please go to 21stcenturydads.org. Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st century dad’s foundation is a 501 c3, not for profit organization, which [00:35:00] means we need your help to keep our content free. To all concerned, would you please consider making a tech stuff full donation? I would really appreciate your support.

Would you please share the podcast and post a review on iTunes to help us build our audience? Also remember to subscribe. So you’ll get a reminder when each new episode is produced.

Bob, thanks again.

Bob Franks: Thank you, David.

Tom Couch: Thank you for listening to the Dad to Dad podcast presented by the Special Fathers Network. The Special Fathers Network is a Dad to Dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs through our personalized matching process. New fathers with special needs children connect with mentor fathers in a similar situation.

It’s a great way for fathers to support fathers, go to 21stcentury dads.org. That’s 21Stcenturydads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help, or we’d like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com [00:36:00] groups and search Dad to Dad.

Also, please be sure to register for the Special Fathers Network, biweekly zoom calls held on the first and third Tuesdays of every month.

Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story floor, no of a compelling story. Please send an email to david@21stcenturydads.org.

Tom Couch: The Dad to Dad podcast was produced by Couch Audio for the Special Fathers Network. Thanks again to Rubin Law for supporting the Dad to Dad podcast.

Call Rubin Law at 847-279-7999 and mention the Special Fathers Network for a free consultation.