294 – Bob Manganelli A Photojournalist & Filmmaker Reflects On The Death of His Deaf Son & Upcoming Film – Part 2

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics’ mission at HorizonTherapeutics.com.

Bob Manganelli: From what I gather from some of the fathers that I’ve seen through your work, they all seem like a pretty sensitive bunch, and they all seem pretty loving and extraordinarily, almost Herculean connection to their child. And disability or no disability, it’s all about our love, isn’t it?

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, photojournalist and filmmaker Bob Manganelli. Bob is partner to Terrylene and father of two children: Catalene and Gio, who very sadly passed away in 2014. He’s directed a new film, We Were Here, dealing with the wisdom and trauma of catastrophic loss. This is the final [00:01:00] installment of this two-part interview. Now, say hello to the host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

The Special Fathers Network MasterMind group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. We’re launching 10 new MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to [00:02:00] 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s hear the final installment of this conversation between Bob Manganelli and David Hirsch, where they talk about son Gio’s extraordinary qualities.

David Hirsch: It seems just because we’re talking about him in his youth, he sounded like he’s more mature than his years, and that he’s got like an old soul. Does that make any sense?

Bob Manganelli: It’s the first thing I said when he took his first breath. He was not a stranger. It’s strange because I was the first kid at film school that had a child. And so Gio became the film school baby. All my friends and social network Gio was part of. I know there was a time where Gio wasn’t here, but it doesn’t resonate with me. So when he’s here, it’s almost like he’s always been here. And that was a real visceral feeling. And so when he passed, part of my grief process is if I felt like he’s always been here before he was born, how is it now that he’s not with us physically? [00:03:00] It’s an interesting place to be. I still feel Gio. And before birth, I wasn’t thinking about feeling children, feeling the vibe of my son, or my future son. But once he was here, it’s almost like there wasn’t a time he wasn’t here.

David Hirsch: It’s a unique phenomena. I get it.

Bob Manganelli: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So not to focus on the negative, but what were some of the bigger challenges that you encountered related to Gio’s condition? You mentioned that he’d been bullied a little bit as a youth. Anything else come to mind?

Bob Manganelli: I think that’s the big thing. Helen Keller said that blindness isolates you from things. I’m close to this quote. Deafness isolates you from people. She may have said it a little differently, but that’s the thing that isolation is, I think, probably the most challenging aspect of being deaf. If everybody knew sign language, that would be different, but so few do. And so few know it at a level where you can really dig deep into life and deep questions about life and existence. And you see a lot of deaf kids that are born to [00:04:00] hearing parents that parents never learned sign language. And you go, oof, how isolating is that? I never wanted to be that.

But when Gio would call me from RIT, first of all, the weather. He was a California kid and he skateboarded and he surfed and upstate New York was dark for him. And he’d get depressed because of the weather. But I think it was also the sense of isolation. That was the most concerning, I think, to me, that is connected to his disability.

And then, of course, this bipolar diagnosis just showed up out of the clear blue. And it was so rapidly debilitating. He died by suicide just a year and a half into his, call it a disease, his disorder.

David Hirsch: You mentioned RIT, but I also know that he went to Gallaudet. So I’m wondering what the progression was or the transition between those two.

Bob Manganelli: We started to see an emergence of his mental health challenges at RIT. So after his second year, the RIT counselor suggested that he take some time away and he could come back whenever he wanted to. But for his mental health, [00:05:00] why don’t we take care of that first? And when he came back to Santa Monica, he wanted to continue. He went to Santa Monica College just to get rid of a lot of his credits.

And then Gallaudet was pretty much offering him a deal, and I was not so supportive of Gallaudet. I mean he had an IQ of 160, 168, and I just felt that academically, this wasn’t a right choice for him. And he said, “Dad, let me just get to Gallaudet. I’ll finish.” And then he wanted to go to grad school in astrophysics in Japan. He got a scholarship and he interned with an astrophysicist from Caltech and he spent a summer at Keck Observatory in Hawaii and they together discovered a supernova. So he spoke Japanese, he signed Japanese, he read Japanese, he had been to Japan three times and he said, “Let me just get my bachelor’s and then I’m off to Japan and I’ll get my graduate degree in astrophysics.” And it was his way. It was a practical thing. So I said, “Look, [00:06:00] it’s your life. You choose it. I’ll just support it.”

And so he took Gallaudet and I relocated to DC. So did his mother to be a support system for him because he was diagnosed bipolar. So yeah, I think there’s a lot of potential in Gallaudet, but personally, I just didn’t feel it was an appropriate placement for him. And let’s just get through these two years or a year and a half and then off to Japan. Let’s just bite the bullet, Dad, and just support him.

David Hirsch: If I can paraphrase what you’ve said, he was at RIT, came home to Santa Monica, went to Santa Monica College for a while, made the decision to go to Gallaudet, and I’m wondering if you can recall what the circumstances were that led to the frightening decision that he made.

Bob Manganelli: He was very proactive. He understood that he had a disease of the mind. And it wasn’t stigma for him, it was real. And he was a smart kid, and he took the vitamins, and he did holistic diets, and he was very aware, and he knew he needed his sleep. Sleep was omni-important for him.

He had an [00:07:00] episode where we found the diagnosis. He had a grand mal seizure in class in Santa Monica. And he started getting these mini seizures and then he had these memory lapses, short term memory lapses. Like I’d say something and his eyes would be a little different. And then he would forget what I said, like just 30 seconds prior when he had these sort of mini seizures. So he was aware. He had a team of neuroscientists and psychologists. So he was on it and he signed all the HIPAA agreements that if anything were to happen, his parents were to get notified right away.

And Gallaudet, I think, happens to be one of those universities where they have a Behavioral Intervention Team. The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand’s doing. And Gio had gone to a number of people for help. He had a conflict with his roommate. And normally, there are safe rooms at the end of the hall for roommates that have conflicts. And for some reason, they wouldn’t give Gio a room. And the Department of Public Safety, DPS, said it’s not our responsibility; it’s Housing. He went to Housing. The woman there, Adrian Morgan, who was the head of the [00:08:00] Housing, refused a room. And he was really upset about it. And he went back to his dorm room and was shooting off a letter to his RA asking for her help. He didn’t understand why he couldn’t get a room. He’d said a number of occasions he didn’t feel safe around his roommate.

And the most bizarre circumstances unfolded. His door was busted down and he was thrown in handcuffs and thrown on the ground face first. And it still isn’t clear. It was a false arrest. But the Metro Police have a rubber stamp relationship with the Gallaudet security. And if Gallaudet says there’s a domestic issue, DPS jailed him. And I know that he went that night and then the next night without any sleep. And then when he came back, he was given a restraining order on his roommate, which he never touched his roommate. It was literally just an argument, and this is his roommate’s testimony. His roommate said, there was nothing, anything physical, but he was told to gather his things and he had to leave and he had no place to go. They didn’t even give him a room then. They did not give him a room after he was [00:09:00] told to leave his dorm room.

And he had this haunting feeling, he said to a classmate. He went over to his dorm because he didn’t have any place to stay. And he said, “I have this haunting feeling that this is my last day on Earth.” And this classmate said, “Why don’t you just call your parents?” And he said, “I’m too embarrassed. I don’t want them to know.” The whole idea of him spending a night in jail was just like… This is a kid who escorted spiders out the door. He was a peacenik when the word go, and he was just terribly embarrassed.

And his episode started, and he knew when an episode was upon him. And he texted me; I was at a wedding in Florida. And he said, “Dad, my life is in danger, immediate danger. Have Mom pick me up.” Because he knew that this episode was brewing. And she came to pick him up, and neither one of us knew what the history was over the last prior 48 hours.

And she drove him back to her house. And she asked him to come with her to pick up Catalene at a birthday party. And I was happy. I heard that Gio’s in the car, and our plan worked. The fact that we were living there and we could support [00:10:00] him, but we didn’t know. Gallaudet didn’t tell us. And he said, “No, you go on. I’ll meet you when you get back.” So she comes back from picking up Catalene, and Gio’s not there. And she calls Gallaudet. She calls DPS and says, “My son wasn’t acting right. Did anything happen?” And they said, “We’re not allowed to tell you.” She goes, “Of course you are. We signed all the HIPAA agreements. Did anything happen to my son over the last 48 hours?” And they said, “You’re going to have to talk to our captain on Monday.” And we never saw Gio after that alive.

And the advocacy that followed, the head of DPS was let go. So were two others. The three top positions were let go. And that’s my only solace. But it’s tragic and I’ve been outspoken about it. Gallaudet is the mecca to a lot of deaf students and, to some degree, I don’t have the connection because the institution is so established in the deaf community that those who have flourished don’t want to see anything that’s going to in any way endanger [00:11:00] what they consider to be opportunities, if that makes sense.

So my relationship with the deaf community is to some degree frayed. But I still have people who are in the know and who love Gio empathize and they show their friendship and their support in the deaf community. But there are other people who have gained a lot of notoriety or opportunity through Gallaudet that just don’t want that stain to be revealed.

David Hirsch: Yeah it’s a heart wrenching story, as you just recalled that. And from just one dad to the next, my heart reaches out to you.

Bob Manganelli: Well, thank you, David.

David Hirsch: Yeah. My understanding is that it is a big blemish on the Gallaudet reputation. And that institution’s been around for decades and decades. And like you said, it’s a mecca for not everybody, but many people in the deaf community. And there are so many success stories that have come out of Gallaudet. But unfortunately, that wasn’t your lived experience. And this was a decade ago that Gio took his life. And it seems like an out of body experience, a surreal experience, that you’ve just described. That your son is [00:12:00] in an academic environment, and because of a confluence of events, lack of communication, miscommunication, there’s this tragic end to his life. And was there any recourse involved or what transpired as a result?

Bob Manganelli: Well, we um, I, I, uh, you know, you’re in the midst of your grief. And so I called a meeting. I asked for the head of DPS, Department of Public Safety, the head of the BIT team, Behavioral Intervention Team, the head psychologist, the dean of students, and the president. And I called this meeting and I said, “I don’t want litigation. I want to solve the problem. And we need to look at what happened so it never happens to another family.” And I was met with, “What happened?” They were like, “What are you talking about? Your son took his life. We don’t have anything to do with it.”

Well, this is before I knew the facts. So then I had no other recourse, but to sue for wrongful death, which I did. In six years, six and a half years of litigation turned out to a settlement [00:13:00] offer, which I didn’t want. But because I’m not the only player here – he’s got a mother who’s involved in this as well – I was faced with a decision.

And our attorney said, “If you don’t settle, this is going to go on for much more time, and all the while you won’t be able to make your film. Or you can settle and go make your film. And which is going to be more productive for you? And which is going to be better for Gio?” It was the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make in my life.

I said, “Okay, I’ll settle.” But I was hoping in my heart of hearts that somehow the settlement talks would fall apart. One of the sticking points was this NDA that they wanted me to sign, and I wasn’t budging. I was not going to sign an NDA in any form. There was a sentence that I agreed to. My intent would not be to solely disparage the university, which I was okay with that because I would never have that kind of an intent to solely do something like that. But I’m going to speak what happened and nobody’s going to shut my mouth. I’m a filmmaker and it’s a sin if this information isn’t shared. It only gives people [00:14:00] permission to do the same afterwards.

So that’s the recourse. The film is my anchor. It’s my purpose. I know Gio would say, “This is what you ought to be doing, Dad. This is a good thing.” And I get these sort of messages in my head and it almost is like somebody speaking right to my head. And I sometimes attribute that to Gio. And he did say once in spirit, he said, “Without malice. Do what you need to do, but do it without malice.” And that was difficult for me because I have a short fuse when it comes to this kind of stuff, but I’ve been doing my best. And I understand now, after four and a half years of shooting, I do understand the wisdom and keeping to the feeling tone of love. Because that’s what he was. That’s what he is.

David Hirsch: Seems like an exercise in mental discipline to be able to stay focused on what your mission is and not be distracted or let your emotions overwhelm you. Because it is so personal, the loss of a child being what’s purported to be a parent’s worst nightmare. And I’m hoping with further [00:15:00] passage of time and as the film develops and that it ultimately gets completed, that this will be part of not only Gio’s legacy, but your family’s legacy. And it’s something that will inform other people. And there’ll be a lot of learning and positive things, the ripple effect I think that a piece of art has in the world. It seems very poignant though, and it still strikes me as being very raw, even though the events that you were recalling go back 10 years.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments, but first this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the [00:16:00] conversation.

David Hirsch: So I’d like to talk a little bit about your career leading up to this. And I’m wondering if you could just provide a brief overview of your film credits if I can call it that.

Bob Manganelli: Sure. My first film was a short. I made it in DC before I came out to film school. It’s called 3.23.85. And that was a collection of two and a half years of voicemail. Back in the day you had those little cartridges where you had the phone, beep, and then leave a message. And so for some reason I never threw away those tapes. I just didn’t want to throw them away. So I had two and a half years worth of phone messages and my film was called 3.23.85 which is what you do when you sign a photograph. You date it and you sign it. So this was just 3.23.85 because that was the date of completion and I treated the film like a photograph. So I had two and a half years of life. The intent was to do a self portrait. When I was listening to all these messages, I said that’s a portrait of me. It’s my brother calling and saying, we had a baby boy. He’s eight pounds, three ounces. I have my mother leaving a message. We lost [00:17:00] Grampy last night. Any aspect professionally, personally, or anything was on that phone machine. And I said there it is. That’s my self portrait. So that was my first film. And I’m still utilizing some of the techniques I used in that film with the current film.

Then I did Beyond Ourselves, which is another short that chronicles my sister who passed, who died. She choked. My parents lived in Boston and my sister gave her a baby’s rattle in the crib and she choked to death on a baby’s rattle. And that was a pretty tragic shadow that, before I was born, happened in my family And so I made a film about that.

And then I did Listen Carefully which was my thesis piece. I was blessed with Richie Marks, who edited Apocalypse Now and Terms of Endearment and Godfather II, and he was my absolute savior, mentor, and that did well. We were at Sundance at Toronto. We won Premiere of Festival in Bombay. We took People’s Choice and Critics Choice in Tokyo. So the film really [00:18:00] launched me into a professional sort of pedigree. And then I did the Sundance film and then After Image with John Mellencamp and Louise Fletcher. And Billy Burke actually turned out to be…this was the rise of his career. This is one of the early films he did. He became successful. By the way, Louise Fletcher, who won the Academy for Cuckoo’s Nest, she has deaf parents. So she and Terrylene got on really well. Terrylene was one of the leads.

David Hirsch: What was the title of that movie?

Bob Manganelli: Yeah, it was called After Image. The first title was Seeing in the Dark, and Martin Sheen wanted the lead role, and I wanted that, but the money people were gonna give me the money should I cast John Mellencamp. I wanted to make the movie, and there was an offer, so we went with John. In many ways, Martin is pretty iconic, and maybe that was not the best choice I would have done if I had to do it over again.

And then again, I wrote a script that was… oh, this is crazy. You’re not going to believe this one. It’s called Strong Deaf. And Strong Deaf is a term that they use for generational deaf. You grow up, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, parents, they’re all deaf. [00:19:00] You’re considered strong deaf. And I’ve actually got the trademark on ‘strong deaf.’ And we were set to go. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Anonymous Content, but Anonymous Content is probably one of the best, hippest, coolest studios in LA. And the CEO/founder of Anonymous Content read the script and he said, “This is our next, we’re doing this.” So we had the head of the studio. I had a deal. We were full steam ahead. And he didn’t tell anybody that he was dying of cancer. And six weeks into getting my film put together, the head of the studio who was really spearheading the project passed away. And as studio life goes, when one administration leaves, the other one takes over and everything else is put on the shelf.

So my first feature is my only feature right now. This is the way the ball bounces. I’ve got another script called Man in the Maze, which was all teed up when Gio died. We had Winona Ryder slated and we were out to Jim Carrey waiting on his decision when [00:20:00] Gio died. So that kind of came to a halt.

David Hirsch: Thanks for sharing. It’ll be interesting to see how all this transpires. And I understand that there is a media company that goes by the name of Sundagger Media, which was co-founded by you and Deanna Cook. And I’m wondering what’s the nature of that entity?

Bob Manganelli: Sundagger is… actually it was Deanna’s idea to name it Sundagger. Gio’s screen name online was Sundagger. Gio and I did a pilgrimage to Chaco Canyon where the Anasazi lived. It’s the only lunar and solar calendar from a single culture in the world.

David Hirsch: Where is this located?

Bob Manganelli: It’s in New Mexico. It’s called Chaco Canyon.

David Hirsch: Okay.

Bob Manganelli: And Gio was so blown away by how the Anasazi were very aware of the astro aspects of life. All their buildings were aligned to the sun or the moon and it was really fascinating. And he really took to it because he was interested in universal stuff anyway. He wanted to be an astrophysicist. So he took on the name Sundagger. And Deanna said, “Why don’t we name the company Sundagger?” And I was like, [00:21:00] “Oh, thank you!” And it was available; there was no company called Sundagger. So we were able to secure that. And it’s a little more than a startup, but it’s a startup and we want to focus on material that is for the betterment. Things that make us feel being alive.

So most of the company is made up of this film that we’re doing now, We Were Here, which tracks Gio as a narrative thread through all the other fathers that I’ve been interviewing for four, four and a half years, all over the country. Fathers who’ve lost children. So that would be sort of the first voyage but we do have other irons in the fire, other projects that are human-based.

Every venture has a story, whether it’s a business venture or anything else. And that’s what we’re interested in dealing with. DocuBranding or DocuMarketing to get to the genesis of the story that’s within the company and photograph the human side of it. They say it’s a high tech, low touch society. We want to get touch back into tech in the stories we tell. So we’re doing these mini [00:22:00] docs that tell a heartfelt story, a story that is meaningful.

But that’s Sundagger. And Deanna’s like the brainchild of that. What birthed it was our working together on this documentary. She’s not a filmmaker by trade. But she brings a real strong female – this might sound stereotypical or even misogynistic – but she really is gifted in empathy, she’s an empath. And that’s the kind of stories that she wants to be involved with. And she really is. The idea of synchronicity is always happening to her. Like always. We were out with a singer songwriter last night. We might be doing a piece with him, really talented fellow. And she talked about this drum circle that we were filming in Utah. And the minute we were talking, the guy that she was talking about, who we haven’t heard from in about a year and a half literally comes up on her phone. It happens all the time, and that’s just her gift. She seems to find a way to connect the dots that have no sort of foundation and logic.

David Hirsch: So my understanding is the working title of the [00:23:00] film is, We Were Here:  From Grieving Fathers Portraits of Love and Gratitude.

[Audio excerpt from the film]

We honor those who have gone before us. We invite them to come with us. Come all of the mothers and fathers, the grandmothers, the grandfathers, the great grandmothers, the great grandfathers, and even those who have gone before us that may be younger than us. Come and warm your hands by our fire. Be with us. We invite those who have not been born yet, those spirits yet to come, that we might guide and blaze ways for them. Be wayshowers. May we honor the sage within us each. Aho.

[End of audio excerpt]

Bob Manganelli: I started out with the film Grieving Fathers: The Love and Gratitude, and then midway Deanna found a note that Gio left for me. I was out somewhere and he came by my place with Catalene, and he wrote a little note. He said, in quotes, “We were here”. And he gave a little I love you sign, and he said, “Wubbia.” As a kid, he didn’t say “I love you.” He used to say “Wubbia.” So we kept that as adults. So he put “Wubbia.” So Deanna said, “What about this note, and ‘we [00:24:00] were here’?” And I said, “That’s a better title than ‘Grieving Fathers.'” So we switched it up, but we had already gone into the internet and the social media knew us as Grieving Fathers. So I have GrievingFathersTheMovie as the website, but once you get on the website, you see the title of the film, which is We Were Here. So We Were Here is a much better title than Grieving Fathers, I think.

David Hirsch: I agree. Yeah. It’s a little bit more upbeat, right?

Bob Manganelli: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And my understanding is that at least the preliminary work that you’ve done in the name of We Were Here is a series of interviews with other men who are grieving the loss of a child or a loved one. Do you have sort of a scope, a timeframe that you hope to pull this project together within?

Bob Manganelli: Yes, I would be thrilled to be able to get into the deadline of Cannes, which is a year from this spring. That would be my unofficial deadline. Right now we’re planning a retreat with the fathers that we’ve already filmed to all come together, and they’ve never met each other, and do four days of a real [00:25:00] intensive conversation.

My story isn’t in front of the camera. My story’s behind the camera, but Gio’s very much a part of everything we’re doing in terms of a narrative thread. To that degree, my story is told, but it’s not told the way I’m integrating the other fathers. It’s like a glue, a tapestry, a mosaic, would be the word. There’s a mosaic, and my story’s kind of like all of it but at the same time, none of it. Because I’m not in front of the camera, and I’m not… It’s called verite cinema, French for truth. It’s observational cinema, it’s not the kind of cinema where we’re sitting down and talking and cutting to what we’re talking about. It’s really observation. It’s not choreographed. It’s spontaneous, and it’s of the moment. Truth. Verite.

David Hirsch: So I’m thinking about advice now, Bob, and I’m wondering if there’s any advice that you can share with parents, knowing that most of our listening audience are families raising children with special needs.

Bob Manganelli: Clearly we all learn as we go, in any situation, disability or not a disability. And far be [00:26:00] it for me to put my self in anybody else’s shoes. There is one thing that does come to mind, and I don’t know if this is advice or not, but I was with a couple of dads, and one father has two kids who are really good in sports. I mean they just naturally excel. And there was another dad in the same car, and we were going to a game. None of the kids were in the car. And one father turned to the father who’s had the athletic kids. He said, “Oh, I wish my son could do what your kids do on the field.” They were younger than me and I turned to him, I said, “Whoa, your child’s special in his own way. He may not be the king on the soccer field. My son wasn’t particularly athletic and I grew up with athletics. But Gio’s prowess was the sport of his mind.” He was a competitive. It was Academic Bowl. And I learned, I got out of my zone of sports, and I went into his sport, which was the sport of the mind. And it was just as exciting as any other sport. And I said, “Your son has his own gifts. It may not be on the [00:27:00] soccer field, but okay, what are they? And just connect with that part.” From what I gather from some of the fathers that I’ve seen through your work, they all seem like a pretty sensitive bunch, and they all seem pretty and almost extraordinarily, almost Herculean connection to their child. And disability or no disability, it’s all about our love, isn’t it?

David Hirsch: Yeah, that’s great. There’s two thoughts that come to mind. One is you have to meet your child where they’re at. And the second is that it’s a cliche, but comparison is the thief of joy, right? Don’t compare your situation, your child’s situation with anybody else, because it’s going to undermine your relationship.

Let’s give a special shout out to Allen Shedlin for helping connect us.

Bob Manganelli: Absolutely. What an amazing man he is and what he’s doing and his life story is just fascinating. He’s a strong shoulder to always call on. He really is very present and I can’t say enough good things about Allen. So I value his involvement in this work and in me and in [00:28:00] Gio. He’s just a remarkable person. I’m so grateful that he intersected with me and also this project.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about your work or contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Bob Manganelli: The website is GrievingFathersTheMovie.com. And my email is submissions@robertmanganelli.com, which is my name.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that information in the show notes, so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up with you.

Bob Manganelli: Absolutely, yeah. And it’s a fluid process, so if there’s a story with our sort of mosaic, I’m also interested in more stories.

David Hirsch: Bob, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Bob is just one of the dads who is part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501c3 not for [00:29:00] profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax-deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Bob, thanks again.

Bob Manganelli: Thank you, David. Very grateful for this.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email [00:30:00] to David@21stCenturyDads.com.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics, who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com.