297 – Keith Harris of Albuquerque, NM A Retired Business Owner, Father Of Four Including One With Down Syndrome – Part 1

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics’ mission at HorizonTherapeutics.com.

Keith Harris: Reflecting on how Tim does this thing called life, how he shows up on the planet, in his interviews, Tim always says, “I’m trying to be more like my dad.” And I am completely 180 on that. I’m completely trying to figure out, still in my life, how I can be more like him. One of my aspirational goals.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Keith Harris, an entrepreneur and father of four, including his son, Tim, age 38, who has Down syndrome. Keith and Tim opened and ran a restaurant. Tim has written a book available on Amazon. And they formed Tim’s Big Heart Foundation, changing the world one hug at a time. There’s a lot to cover here, so we’re presenting this interview [00:01:00] in two segments. This week is part one. Now, say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

The Special Fathers Network MasterMind group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. We’re launching 10 new MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes [00:02:00] or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen to part one of this conversation between Keith Harris and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Keith Harris of Albuquerque, New Mexico, a retired business owner and father of four, including a son with Down syndrome. Keith, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Keith Harris: Yeah, thanks for having me on.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Jeannie, have been married for 44 years and are the proud parents of four boys: Daniel, 39; Tim, 38; Thomas, 35; and John, 33. Tim is the one with Down syndrome. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Keith Harris: Yeah, I grew up in Pontiac, Michigan, USA. I was born in 1956 and grew up in southeastern Michigan.

David Hirsch: And did you have siblings when you were growing up?

Keith Harris: I did. My parents had two sons before me. They’re both still alive, so I have two older brothers. Their names are Max and Rex, both still living in southeastern Michigan. One is 11, and the other is 16 years older than me. I was the latecomer in my family.

David Hirsch: You weren’t an oops baby, were you? [00:03:00]

Keith Harris: Very high possibility of that, [David laughing] but that’s never been confirmed nor denied in my family. But I’m very good at math and I can work out those numbers myself.

David Hirsch: Okay. Sometimes the best is saved for last anyway.

Keith Harris: I think so.

David Hirsch: So I’m curious to know what did your dad do for a living?

Keith Harris: My dad was raised on a farm in rural Michigan. And so I grew up like so many farm kids. And during World War II, moved to the big city to seek his fortune and wound up getting a job with a construction company in Pontiac as a truck driver. During the time I was growing up, my dad was a local truck driver. He hauled structural steel for this construction company, so was home every night for dinner.

David Hirsch: And how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Keith Harris: I think my dad was really typical of a lot of men from his generation. Stereotypical, in a way. Worked hard, always went to work. Fiercely dedicated and loyal to his family. At the end of a work day, after dinner was completed and the meal was cleaned up, he would retire to his recliner chair and pretend [00:04:00] he was reading the daily newspaper and some minutes later you’d hear some soft snoring as the paper had fallen down onto his face. But a strong man, not very emotionally expressive, I guess you would say.

David Hirsch: And I guess that would be stereotypical, like you were saying, of men of that era. Strong people, good work ethic, good providers, but not overly communicative.

Keith Harris: Yeah. When he opened his mouth to say something, I always knew it was time to listen. Because he didn’t say a lot, but when he did, it was definitely in my best interest to pay close attention.

David Hirsch: And tragically, he died at a relatively early age.

Keith Harris: He did. He did, David. In my teen years, a year apart, I lost both my parents. My mother died when I was a freshman in college, and my dad took his own life just over a year later.

David Hirsch: Yeah, that’s very sad. I can’t even imagine what that would have been like, the void or the loss that that creates. But I imagine that there’s some lessons learned from that as well.

Keith Harris: Yeah. Both of the things you just said are definitely true for me. It’s like an unimaginable void and loss, particularly at that age, for me [00:05:00] to be thrust out into the world seemingly on my own, without the guidance of my parents. The flip side is that I learned to be very self- reliant, to be really focused and really sharp at building a life for myself. Sort of thrust into that, and got moving at a pretty early age.

David Hirsch: Yeah, you can only look back and connect those dots. When you think about your parents, your dad in particular, what were some of the more important lessons that you took away?

Keith Harris: As I get older, David, I think a lot more about those lessons. They range pretty far and wide, but I think the central lesson from my dad was the importance of family. That it wasn’t like an add-on to his life, it was the center of his life. The conditioning, the way I was raised, is that all of us are, we really live in the context of our family. And that’s really important.

He taught me a lot about respect, particularly of women. He had really clear messaging for me and my brothers about how we talk to our mother. At times when I didn’t think he was paying attention, I can remember as a young teenager, once in a while saying something smart alecky. All of a sudden I would hear this booming voice from the other room [00:06:00] saying, “You might want to rethink that and try that again with your mother.” And those lessons stuck with me. A lot of latitude to do what I wanted to do, but he was very clear on the fact that my mother, his wife, was going to be treated with respect. No exceptions.

David Hirsch: Those are some important takeaways, the importance of family and then respect. And I think one of the most important things a man can do for his children is to respect the mother.

Keith Harris: Agreed.

David Hirsch: And there’s a number of different ways to do that, and it sounds like he was not passive. That’s what I heard you saying.

Keith Harris: He was not passive. He was not passive. If he felt that I crossed a line, he was immediately on the scene. Messaging was really clear. It sticks with me to this day. And in an eerie way that I think we all share, when my sons were teenagers, I found myself, without thinking about it, just echoing some of those words about how they dealt with their mother. When the words would come out of my mouth, I remembered very clearly where they came from. Before me.

David Hirsch: Thanks for sharing. I’m thinking about other father influencers. I’m wondering what, if any, impact your grandfather’s had. First, on your dad’s side.

Keith Harris: [00:07:00] On my dad’s side, my paternal grandfather died before I was born. I didn’t really have any clear influence there. But my maternal grandfather, his name was Sam Derry, a World War I veteran, a combat veteran in World War I. Spent time in France and Germany. Also, some really amazing life lessons from him. Like so many farm kids, during World War I, he’d never been more than, I think, in his life before he went to war a mile away from his house, then got shipped off to Europe to fight. And when he came back, his eyes were opened. He became an entrepreneur, had the franchise for a Shell gas station in his hometown, and was amongst the early adopters of the lifestyle for a lot of people in the Midwest to have a second place in Florida for the winter. He was a very early adopter of that model. So I think I got quite a bit of what I would say is almost like a worldly view a bit more from my grandfather than even from my own parents.

David Hirsch: And did your grandfather on your mom’s side outlive your parents?

Keith Harris: He did not. He died exactly one year before my mother.

David Hirsch: Oh, wow.

Keith Harris: When I was a senior in [00:08:00] high school. So I had three pretty hard back to back years, David, with losing my grandfather who I was very close with, followed by my mom, followed by my dad’s suicide.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I’m sorry to hear that. It’s like a revolving door almost.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: You almost don’t have enough time to mourn the loss of the last one before you’re mourning the loss of the next one.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: I can relate a little bit to that, a little bit different context, but in 2017, my mom passed in January, my father-in-law in April, and my dad in May.

Keith Harris: Wow.

David Hirsch: We would not have guessed that they would have gone in that order. It was just the opposite order, actually. Your head’s spinning. Your world gets rocked, and the things that were part of your foundation are no longer there. And then all of a sudden you realize, oh, I guess I’m the oldest generation now.

Keith Harris: Yeah. Yeah.

David Hirsch: It’s like you said, you grew up a little bit faster.

Keith Harris: Most definitely true. And you’re exactly right, David, with the layering that comes with that kind of loss, right? You clearly don’t have time to integrate or recover or heal from the first before there’s another and then [00:09:00] another.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I’m still thinking about father figures and I’m wondering if there’s any other individuals that come to mind.

Keith Harris: My dad’s brother, who was a World War II veteran who lived near us was also a pretty strong influence in my life. He and my dad were pretty close. Always felt like my uncle was somewhere in the back looking out for me, like a safety net if I ever needed it. And that really proved to be true after my dad’s suicide. My uncle a week or two later called me up and took me to lunch. He’d never done that before and basically said to me that he wanted me to live with him and my aunt. Kind of went out on a limb. He said, “You’re a grown man, 19 years old. I won’t ask you where you’re going, where you’ve been or what time you got home. It just means a lot to me to know that you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach.” And he offered to pay for my school and a whole bunch of things, but it was the most, I think, sincere kind offer that I can remember in a long time.

And I didn’t take him up on it. Somewhat regret that looking back with my eyes today. But I think I was so shell shocked through everything that had happened, I just wanted to be alone and [00:10:00] to be on my own.

David Hirsch: It’s nice to know that he was a backstop, right? Even though you might not have taken him up on the offer.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: But you knew that you had family there.

Keith Harris: Absolutely.

David Hirsch: Anybody else?

Keith Harris: I think those are most of the major influences. There were people here and there. As a very young man, I was a caddy at a private golf course in southeastern Michigan. There was a gentleman, a pretty phenomenal businessman from Michigan, that I was a regular caddy for. I caddied for him every Saturday and Sunday when he played. And he was a very kind man, and after I lost my parents, he provided a lot of very meaningful advice and reassurance to me. He’s long ago passed on, but I just have a warm feeling in my heart when I think about how kind he was to me after all that happened.

David Hirsch: And who was he by name?

Keith Harris: His name was John Poole, and he owned a whole series of newspapers, radio stations, and television stations across the US but was one of the most humble and kind men that I’ve ever worked for in that environment. Really have fond memories of his guiding hand.

David Hirsch: Yeah I think of people like John [00:11:00] Poole, who you might refer to as a media mogul of sorts…

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: …as one of those angels that come into our lives.

Keith Harris: Absolutely. Absolutely.

David Hirsch: You don’t maybe realize it at the time, but you can look back and say, wow, what an influential role that they play.

Keith Harris: Sure.

David Hirsch: Thanks for sharing. My recollection was that you took a degree from Wayne State University. You studied geology and mining.

Keith Harris: That’s right.

David Hirsch: And I’m wondering where did your career take you?

Keith Harris: The interesting side note, after all that academic training and all that study, it turns out from this perspective looking back, that I never worked one day in my life as a geologist with all that training. [David chuckling] Just through a series of circumstances, happenstance, wound up as we were expecting what is now my oldest son, Daniel, that it was time to get to work. That was in the early 1980s. Through a weird series of coincidences, the job market was really depressed. When I needed to go to work to earn a salary to have a family, work was not available. So I just took a completely different path.

David Hirsch: [00:12:00] Where did that take you?

Keith Harris: Originally, I wound up getting a job in professional sales for a pharmaceutical company. And so I spent a couple of years as a professional pharmaceutical rep calling on doctors and pharmacies and hospitals in New Mexico. Then that kind of segued to a couple of other sales jobs, one for Shell Oil Company, and then finally for a small software company back here in Albuquerque that sold office automation systems for orthodontists around the English-speaking world.

David Hirsch: And then you became an entrepreneur like your family members.

Keith Harris: I did. I did. I did.

David Hirsch: And what was it? What was the name of the business? What did the business do and who’d you work with?

Keith Harris: Our original name was Computer Professionals Incorporated. At the very beginning, we operated a lot like a staffing agency where major corporations and government agencies in New Mexico would have need for computer professionals, mostly software developers on contract. Like they would have their own [00:13:00] staff – these were very large organizations – but they had limits on their headcount that were full-time employees, but they had additional budget that they could spend on contract staff. So we wound up filling a niche. So we started hiring computer programmers and then renting their time to major corporations on long-term contracts. That’s how we got our start back in the day.

David Hirsch: And what were some of the names of the customers? Because my recollection was they were rather large, like household name businesses.

Keith Harris: Yeah. Over the years, here in New Mexico, we worked with a couple of the large nuclear research laboratories, namely Los Alamos National Labs and Sandia National Labs. But we’ve also worked with Intel Corporation, Hewlett Packard, Motorola, hospital systems across the whole country, major banks. Any large enterprise-sized company was either a customer or a potential customer.

David Hirsch: It sounded like a consequential business.

Keith Harris: It didn’t start that way. [David laughing] It didn’t start that way. We literally started the business on our kitchen table with the little boys running around [00:14:00] in diapers with a whopping startup capital of $500. We literally started our business with 500 bucks. And then you fast forward a few decades, and at the time we sold our company back in 2017, we were up to a couple thousand employees in 11 countries and about 22 of the US states.

David Hirsch: Wow. It sounds like it went from this little hands-on business that you were describing to multifaceted and hey, I better get some professional management in here because this is a little bit beyond what we had started with.

Keith Harris: Yeah, that need for professional management started way before that. I think when I reflect on myself, David, particularly at my age now, I’m pretty comfortable in my own skin. I know what I’m good at, know what I’m not good at. And I was always good at sort of the art of influencing people. And that turned out to be really helpful in sales and business development. But very quickly brought in people that were financial experts and HR experts, things of that sort.

David Hirsch: Excellent. Very impressive. Thanks for sharing.

Keith Harris: Yeah, thanks.

David Hirsch: So I’m curious to know, how did you and Jeannie meet?

Keith Harris: We met when we were still in New Mexico [00:15:00] before we… or when we were still in Michigan, excuse me, before we moved to New Mexico. We met in our workplace. That workplace was an organization called Kmart. [David chuckling] We were both employees at a Kmart store in Pontiac, Michigan when we met. So it was a workplace romance.

David Hirsch: I think I can literally say that you took more away from your time at Kmart than most people then.

Keith Harris: Definitely. Working in retail back in those days was a learning experience in itself, but I really feel like today, all these years later, that I hit the jackpot in that store. And it wasn’t my job. It was finding and meeting the love of my life.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. Thanks again. So let’s talk about special needs first on a personal level and then beyond. So prior to Tim’s birth, did you or Jeannie have any connections to the world of disability or special needs?

Keith Harris: Not anything that was very direct. When I was a kid in Pontiac, growing up in my neighborhood, across the street was a family that had a son with Down syndrome. He was a bit older than me, maybe 10 years older than me, but was somewhat of a playmate for me [00:16:00] during my early childhood. So I had some basic familiarity with Down syndrome through that connection, but not much else.

David Hirsch: Okay. So what is Tim’s diagnosis and how did it come about?

Keith Harris: Tim was born in January of 1986 and was diagnosed shortly after birth with Down syndrome. Through further genetic testing a year or two later, we discovered that he is the subtype, he has mosaic Down syndrome which is a specific subtype in which the individual has a hybrid. Down syndrome is characterized genetically as having an extra copy of the 21st chromosome. So they call it trisomy 21. In mosaicism, not every cell in the body has extra copies. Some are normal and some are affected by the extra chromosome. So Tim is officially diagnosed with Mosaic Down syndrome.

David Hirsch: So would that be considered a more mild case of Down syndrome as opposed to all the DNA being the same or not?

Keith Harris: Research on that, David, is still a bit inconclusive. But in general, [00:17:00] babies that are born with the Mosaic variety tend to have a slightly higher outcome like in terms of cognitive ability and speech clarity, things of that sort.

David Hirsch: Gotcha.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So 38 years ago, the world was quite a bit different as it relates to the diagnosis and the way we thought about people with differences, Down syndrome being one. What were some of the fears that you had as parents once you learned about the diagnosis?

Keith Harris: I think the experience that Jeanne [00:18:00] and I had is timeless. I think that even families that we meet that had babies born last month, I can just feel it. I could see it in their eyes, just feel it in their hearts that they’re right where we were. Tim is our second son and I can just remember sitting at that hospital feeling like the trajectory of our life as we knew it at that time was completely changed. That we had been rising up and now we’re immediately starting over at the bottom. Had all kinds of irrational fears of Tim being non-functional as a child and adult. Nothing based on reality, logic, or science. Just fear, uncertainty, doubt, gloom.

David Hirsch: Fear of the unknown.

Keith Harris: Fear of the unknown, yeah. Yeah. We were pretty heartbroken and pretty terrified.

David Hirsch: Was there any meaningful advice you got early on that helped brighten that outlook?

Keith Harris: Yeah, pretty early on. After we got home from the hospital, I called a number that our pediatrician had given us for a local parent support group. In the first week of Tim’s life, we had a home visit by a family that had a, I think the little girl with Down syndrome was about two and a half. [00:19:00] I don’t remember her name, but they came to our house and rang a doorbell. I opened the door and the little girl, blonde haired girl with Down syndrome, went running right past my legs and ran to my wife, Jeannie, and just started hugging her knees. I don’t know what she sensed or what she saw, but it’s like that moment could not have been scripted any better. And the little girl was interestingly close in age to our older son, Dan. And they just immediately started playing, the two of them together.

We talked for a couple hours with the parents. I don’t remember the exact topics we talked about, but I do remember really distinctly watching my son and this little girl playing and feeling inside myself that this looks and feels and seems pretty normal. And I think that was a, for me, that was a really big turning point to get a picture of what looked and felt like a normal life.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it sounds like a game changer, right?

Keith Harris: It was.

David Hirsch: Yeah, thank God for people like that, those peer volunteers, is what I think of them as.

Keith Harris: Yeah, absolutely.

David Hirsch: That are not too far [00:20:00] into their own journey, if they have a two and a half year old like you’re describing.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: But are seeking out others who are close to the beginning of their journey to help them put their situation in perspective, right?

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: There’s some hope. There’s a vision that you might catch from that point going forward.

Keith Harris: Yeah. I think a vision to be caught is a great way to describe that, David. Even before that, as a young scientist, I went to the medical school library where we lived and I probably read hundreds of pages about what was known at that time about Down syndrome. And it was all helpful cognitively, but watching my son and that little girl playing was worth a thousand times more than everything I’d read.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I imagine if you’re reading, like today people would be Googling, that it could be frightening.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Because a lot of the things are maybe accurate but not so positive. And if that’s your perspective, then where does that leave you? Other than starting at a much, much lower level and maybe dashing your [00:21:00] hopes or expectations in the process.

Keith Harris: Right.

David Hirsch: Were there some important decisions that you and Jeannie made as a result of raising a son with Down syndrome?

Keith Harris: I guess lots of them have evolved over the years but early on I had taken a job with Shell Oil Company before Tim was born. We were relocated to the Philadelphia area. So Tim was born in the Philadelphia suburbs. And almost immediately we began thinking about how much we had loved our life and all the people we were connected to in New Mexico. And we didn’t know a soul in Pennsylvania. And I think his birth really reinforced the decision we were trying to make whether or not to return back to Albuquerque. And his birth just pushed us over that limit. I think that was the first of many decisions we made.

David Hirsch: To move back to Albuquerque.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Okay. Not to focus on the negative, but what were some of the biggest challenges you faced?

Keith Harris: With Tim’s arrival you mean?

David Hirsch: Yeah, and you decided to have two more boys, for that matter. Holy moly, right? You’re like, huh, we got this.

Keith Harris: Yeah. That literally was one of the challenges, was to decide whether to have [00:22:00] more kids. Immediately, the fear hit us about having multiple children with special needs. Whether or not we’d be ready for that, if that were the case. But after seeking some counseling with geneticists and reading, we understood that the odds were not substantially higher for us to have more kids with disabilities.

So we proceeded on and had two more sons after Tim. And that turned out to be a good decision, I think, for Tim. Tim was sandwiched between one older brother and two younger brothers and that was a really neat spot for him. That he, like all kids, looked up, still does to this day, to his older brother. Always wanted to be like him, but also, developmentally, he never wanted the younger guys to pass him by. [David chuckles] So he rose to the occasion more than once to not get passed by a little brother. And so it turned out to be a very fortunate setting for him, I think.

David Hirsch: Now, there is something to be said about birth order.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it can have an influence. And what you just described is a positive influence as opposed to getting [00:23:00] that middle child syndrome, if you will. Were there any turning points when you look back that said, oh, this happened, that happened, that was meaningful or memorable?

Keith Harris: Gosh. All through Tim’s life, there have been a really big series of those kind of turning point moments and I’ll give you a couple little vignettes. But when he was in elementary school, I went to a parent teacher conference and had a really profound conversation with his teacher. And she was telling me that she was working with Tim to be less trusting. She found him to be completely trusting. And I was scratching my head, David, like why you would teach a child to be less trusting. It turned into a really very deep and profound conversation. And she said, “Just like you, I love Tim. And I don’t want him to get hurt. And if he trusts too much he’s likely to get hurt.” I was just thinking about that at a real deep level, not the surface level when she was talking to me. I think her name was Mary, something or other, but I said, “Mary, would you say that you and I have a normal amount of trust, being socialized the way we were socialized?” She goes, “Yeah, that’s what we’re [00:24:00] working for for Tim.” And I said, “So with your evolved sense of trust, you’re telling me that you’ve never been hurt or burned.” And she said, “No, that’s just not true. I’ve been hurt lots of times.” And I said, “You know what? Me too. And I’m sitting here right at this moment, imagining what I might have missed by not being more trusting with people. None of us can get it perfectly, right? Then might we not want to err on the side of being more trusting?”

And that was one of many such moments, David, where just reflecting on how Tim does this thing called life, how he shows up on the planet, in his interviews, Tim always says, “I’m trying to be more like my dad.” And I am completely 180 on that. I’m completely trying to figure out, still in my life, how I can be more like him. One of my aspirational goals.

David Hirsch: It sounds like one of those perfect mentor-mentee relationships where the mentor thinks that he’s the one that’s doing all these things for the younger person, typically. And it turns out that it’s just the opposite.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. So I’m curious to [00:25:00] know what impact Tim’s situation’s had on his siblings, your marriage, or your extended family for that matter.

Keith Harris: I’ll start with the siblings. All three of my other sons are about as open-minded and accepting of others as any human being I’ve ever met. Growing up with Tim, they are wide open and inclusive in the way they do their life. It’s baked into them, to just be accepting of people who are different. I love that about them. They’re also, even at a young age, there’s an instinct sometimes, I think, in males to protect. And I think they understood that Tim needed to be protected. And so even as just little boys, they were on the job in magical ways when I wasn’t around, when I wasn’t looking, where they’re looking after their brother, taking care of him, probably more ways than I’ll ever understand.

The flip side that I worry about more as I age, and as I see other families… It’s common, I think, in families that have children with special needs, that when they’re born, it’s like an emergency alarm goes off in the parent’s mind. They muster all their resources to take care of that kid. [00:26:00] So when I think of the truth of my life, that I love all four of my sons equally, and would gladly at this moment give my life for any of them. When I try to flip it around and look at their perspective, I think that in some ways, I worry that they may have been shortchanged with our attention by the need or the perceived need to focus so much time and attention on Tim.

So it’s a regret that I carry at this age now looking back. They don’t complain. In fact, I think they would be aghast if they heard me say that. But looking back with the eyes I have now, I wonder to what degree we overdid it by focusing attention on Tim that could have been distributed more equitably. Let’s put it that way.

David Hirsch: Yeah, the issue that you’re framing is that issue of sibling and family balance.

Keith Harris: Yeah. Yeah.

David Hirsch: And in the heat of battle, you’re gonna do whatever you have to do for the most vulnerable or the ones that have the greatest need at the time. And you inadvertently might be allocating a disproportionate amount of your time and resources to one, not intentionally neglecting the [00:27:00] others, but inadvertently potentially overlooking some of their needs. And sometimes it shows up later down the road. But in your situation, I don’t think it’s a dramatic showing up years down the road. There is that issue that I think we do the mental gymnastics as parents of wanting to be equitable. And you need to give yourself some grace in the situation and just say, hey, we did the best job we could with the information and the resources we had, and hopefully you don’t look back with a lot of regrets.

Keith Harris: Yeah. I appreciate that input, my friend. And you’re right.

David Hirsch: So we talked about the siblings. I’m wondering what impact it’s had on your marriage or extended family.

Keith Harris: When I look back at the experience that Jeannie and I had, I managed to get on board with the diagnosis and was ready to dive in and move on maybe a bit before she was. And I think knowing what I know now, I might have been a bit more patient about that with my wife. She doesn’t have any major complaints about that, but again, it’s one of those little twinges of guilt that I have now looking back all these years later that I might’ve given her a minute to adjust more than I did.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I think it’s pretty [00:28:00] common that one parent usually is… you might be shoulder to shoulder, right? You’re physically shoulder to shoulder, but mentally, emotionally, we don’t all make those adjustments at the same rate. That’s what I heard you say.

Keith Harris: That’s right. That’s exactly right. But that being said, I think that Tim’s arrival in our family, along with just the reality of having lots of small kids, for us really more galvanized us as a couple. It wasn’t a wedge, it was more of a glue. It was like we have a shared fate now. Life has dealt us this particular hand. And it’s up to you and me to figure it out. Reflecting back after all these years, I can honestly say that it’s really made us closer and much, much stronger as a couple.

David Hirsch: Glad to hear that. And how about your extended family?

Keith Harris: Overwhelmingly, a positive experience for them to have come to know Tim over time and to really include him into their lives as well. Tim is really close with his aunts and uncles in Michigan and he has a very close aunt in California and manages to talk her into going with him to Disneyland once a [00:29:00] year in southern California and a little bit of a special weekend for him and her family. He does a real good job of keeping in touch with family. I don’t even really realize how much he’s communicating with my brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews. And almost every time I just randomly talk to one of my nieces or nephews, they’re like, “Oh, Tim called us last Wednesday and filled us in on his life.” And it’s really nice to see how he’s connected to all those people.

David Hirsch: Yeah what you’re describing, I think of as Tim’s world.

Keith Harris: Yeah.

David Hirsch: There’s this constellation of individuals that are there and are playing an important role, he in their lives and they in his life.

Keith Harris: Yeah. Yeah. One thing that’s involved with that Tim’s world piece that’s just really coming into sharper focus recently is he’s made a lot of friends in the last five years that my wife and I don’t know. He was telling us two days ago that when he walks home from work, he stops in this business that’s like halfway between his house and his work and talks to the owner. It’s some kind of a business that sells ice cream and they offer painting classes. [00:30:00] [David chuckles] I don’t think he’s ever had any of the ice cream or done any painting there, but it’s halfway home. He just pops his head in there and says hi and stops to chat. And one of our friends happened to be in there and talked to the owner when Tim was there and the guy was saying just what a unique treat it’s been in his life to make the acquaintance of Tim Harris. It’s a person I’ve yet to meet. Makes me happy to think that he’s making all these connections that have nothing to do with me, right?

David Hirsch: Yeah, that is, that’s really powerful. Thank you for sharing.

Tom Couch: And that concludes this first segment of David Hirsch’s conversation with Keith Harris. Tune in next week when we’ll hear about Keith and Tim’s restaurant venture, Tim’s Place, Tim’s children’s book, The Book of Hugs, and about their charity, The Big Heart Foundation. That’s all next week on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” [00:31:00] Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to David@21stCenturyDads. com.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics, who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com