299 – Steve Thomas of Manhattan, IL Father Of 8 & Author Of Catholic Joe Superhero, Reflects On Faith, Fatherhood & Family

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics’ mission at HorizonTherapeutics. com.

Steve Thomas: With everything that happened with our son, there was so much grace and so much blessing that came as a result of that. Just even myself, I know that the way I look at people who are incarcerated, people in the streets, people with mental illness, it developed in me a much greater compassion for people like that.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Steve Thomas, a serial entrepreneur and father of eight including a set of twins with additional needs. Steve is an amazing guy. He walked across the country in the shape of a cross. And he’s just written a book called Catholic Joe Superhero in which Catholic Joe stands up for the American family. It’s an intriguing conversation that we’ll hear on this Special Fathers [00:01:00] Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

David Hirsch: The Special Fathers Network MasterMind group experience is the most comprehensive program The 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. We’re launching 10 new MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go [00:02:00] to 21stCenturyDads. org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen in on this conversation between Steve Thomas and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Steve Thomas of Manhattan, Illinois, a serial entrepreneur, author, and father of eight. Steve, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Steve Thomas: Thank you, David. Great to be here.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Ginny, have been married for 33 years and are the proud parents of eight children: Steve, 32; 30 year old twins, David and John; Joseph, 28; Francis, 26; Mary, 25; Grace, 23; and Gabriel, 21. The twins are the ones with additional needs. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Steve Thomas: I was born in Joliet, Illinois, east side. We moved to New Lenox when I was five years old, and grew up. We had a horse farm, so I was able to learn the beauty of shoveling horse manure when I was young. It was… everybody should do it. There’s something just earthy and beautiful about it. Yeah, I grew up around [00:03:00] horses. We had seven acres as a kid and just had a lot of fun growing up out in the country. That was a lot of fun as a kid.

David Hirsch: Do you have any siblings when you were growing up, Steve?

Steve Thomas: I do. I have an older brother, two years older, a sister that’s four years older and a sister that’s two years younger.

David Hirsch: And are you all horse people now?

Steve Thomas: No. I ran from horses. They’re so much work. I’m like, I’ll just have kids.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I’m curious to know what does your dad do for a living?

Steve Thomas: So my dad, he passed away six years ago. He started a company called TriStar Cabinet. It’s a custom cabinet company and really built it up to one of the larger custom shops in the Chicagoland area.

David Hirsch: So would you say he is an entrepreneur?

Steve Thomas: Oh, for sure. Yeah. He was an entrepreneur. So back in the day, he actually started a computer company. It was US Micro Sales, custom computers. So that company never really took off for him. He was starting a computer business back in the early 80s when Apple and Microsoft were starting as well. So he had a pretty good nose for entrepreneurship.

David Hirsch: Do you think that’s where you got it?

Steve Thomas: For sure. Yeah. And again, [00:04:00] that was just one company. There at one time I saw the sheet of all the different businesses that he had. He had a beer distributorship, other like smaller products he was trying to create. So, yeah, he was always involved in something.

David Hirsch: How would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Steve Thomas: It was tough. It was tough. His father left him when he was just a young kid, probably six, seven, eight years old. His mother was a little bit twisty. He really never had a good foundation. So when he married my mom, her dad was molested, so my mom was shipped away from the family when she was young, down to Southern Illinois. They both really just never had the foundation. And growing up with my father, it was a tough relationship. Again, there were some positives and some good, but there was a lot more negatives and a lot more struggles with him.

David Hirsch: Do you think it had to do with his inability to communicate, or show affection? What are you talking about?

Steve Thomas: Yeah. So he did have emotions, anger. He would [00:05:00] always be more affectionate when he was drunk. So he had a bad alcohol problem. You could tell when he was drinking, when he would come in and ask you, “Do you love me? I love you.” And yeah, he really struggled with communication. We struggle with a lot of things. He was never there at the games, the baseball games, the basketball games. And he was busy building his businesses and his empire, so to speak. And so because of that, just really strained relationship.

David Hirsch: Okay. Thanks for that insight. Are there any important takeaways when you think about your relationship with your dad? Something that you wanted to do as a result of, or not do as a result of, as a dad yourself?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, actually. And it really did have a big impact on me and really wanted to do the opposite. So I learned what not to do. Although I have to tell you, I really did struggle in my being a man, my masculinity, ability to have relationships. That was a real struggle. It was something that I never really had that role model. And so because of that, I did struggle. I think I was [00:06:00] 48 years old when I really started to realize that I need to be a giver. I need to… there were a lot of things that I didn’t learn until later on in life that I learned from that relationship.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Sorry to hear that it was a challenging relationship. That’s something I guess we have in common as a result of my parents splitting when I was six, my younger brother was five. And it turns your world inside out. The way I’ve phrased it later on in life is that we all learn by role models. We want to emulate the ones that are getting it right, and maybe live vicariously through the others so you don’t repeat some of the same mistakes that maybe you witnessed or that you experienced. And these are important lessons, right? Not always learned from good role models. So anyway, glad to hear that there was some important takeaways.

David Hirsch: You had made reference in passing to your grandfathers, first on your dad’s side and then on your mom’s. And what I heard you saying about your paternal grandfather is that he left when your dad was a young guy. It sounded like there was some dysfunctionality going on there.

Steve Thomas: For sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

David Hirsch: Did you have a chance to meet [00:07:00] your paternal grandfather? Did you know him at all?

Steve Thomas: That’s a great question. So he left my father and for years, my father tried to locate him. He wanted to find him. And this one lady, Vicki Eisenbeiss, really good friend and great friend to my dad, she actually tracked him down. So really, I would say five years before he died, my father was finally able to reconnect with him. And that was probably one of the better moments with my father was going out there to meet his dad and my grandpa. And he was really a great guy, great personality. And who he had married, she was just a doll. She was just a sweet lady. I think that helped with some healing. And that was a great moment to be a part of that.

David Hirsch: So you had a chance to meet your grandfather for the first time.

Steve Thomas: I did.

David Hirsch: You had not interacted with him because your dad was estranged from him.

Steve Thomas: Exactly. And my grandma had…he had always sent money and tried to help and provide, but his mom never let him know that. So she forged a wedge, and thankfully they were able [00:08:00] to heal that breach before he passed away.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. That’s very powerful. And on your mom’s side, your maternal grandfather, did you get to know him at all?

Steve Thomas: I did. I did. And he was a horseman, liked to drink, again, but he had his demons. And because of that, they had to separate my mom when she was very young and sent her to relatives down in Southern Illinois to keep her away from him. Again, what I had experienced with him, nothing too negative. I just remember, I do remember praying for him when he was dying. I just remember praying, just going, God, please, cause again, he was estranged from the church. Didn’t have a deep relationship with God. And I just remember praying and then him eventually asking for the priest and reconciling with God before he went on and I thought that was pretty cool.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Any other men that played an important role in your life, father figures while you were growing up or maybe as a young adult for that matter?

Steve Thomas: Yeah. Actually priests, believe it or not. There were actually a couple of priests. So there was Father Ryan. You would never say [00:09:00] this now, but we used to drink Jack Daniels and Coke and talk about God. He was just a great guy, just a very spirit-filled man. He was a great example. His unconditional love, just was a great guy to talk to and accepted me for who I was. And then Bishop Caffer. He would always visit all the families, right? He was principal of the high school. And so he would visit all the families, and he came to our house, and of course my dad was passed out drunk in the car. The car is running and he walks by, and he looks in the car, and he did one of these, and just went in. And oh my goodness. But I think he knew a lot of the brokenness, so he was really good to me. And he was the one actually… So I’d gone in the seminary for five years, discerned the priesthood. Obviously I didn’t go through with it, with eight kids. They call me Father, just in a different way. But anyway Bishop Caffer would take me to the seminaries to visit, and just was always so good, and just like a grandfather to our kids. He was a great blessing in my life.

Steve Thomas: And hey, one more story. Father Gerald [00:10:00] Schubert, God rest him. So he came over once to visit with my dad and he liked to drink. So he goes, “I’ll come in and bless you when we’re done.” And of course I’m waiting in the bedroom all night and they’re out there just whooping it up and hollering and laughing and drinking. And they had the best time and he never did make it in there to give me a blessing.

David Hirsch: It sounds like there’s a fair amount of alcohol in your life and your background for that matter.

Steve Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I chose to quit. I actually quit drinking when we started having kids. I just thought, you know what? Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. Just go through stupid. [David chuckles] So no booze.

David Hirsch: Okay. I think you mentioned a nun’s name, Sister Philip.

Steve Thomas: Yeah. Sister Philip Joseph. Yeah. She really was the rockstar in my life. She was somebody that… I was in high school and that’s when my parents divorced was when I was in high school. It started, the fight started much further before that. But she had this sense of peace. It was just palpable, the sense of peace about her. I used to look at her and go, I want that. I want that [00:11:00] peace because I obviously didn’t have it. And so when I went into the seminary, she literally wrote me probably twice, at least twice a week. She would write the handwritten letter, praying for you and yada yada. She was just awesome. She was just such a great… Somebody that loved me and supported me, and yeah, she was a great great witness for me.

David Hirsch: Have you kept up with her?

Steve Thomas: I have, yeah. Yeah, in fact, I sent her a copy of the book and she said she started reading it and she was crying. And of course she didn’t appreciate some of the, why I pointed out some of the corruption and stuff. She’s like, oh, you shouldn’t. Yeah. She’s like in her eighties now. And thank goodness the ruler is nowhere close to her anymore.

David Hirsch: Yeah, you’d have your knuckles rapped on pretty hard there.

Steve Thomas: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny because she used to, talking after the fact, she goes, I used to just cringe every time you walked into the classroom. I was one of those… I was a troublemaker. Yeah.

David Hirsch: I did not grow up going to Catholic school, but there is a reputation that nuns have as it relates [00:12:00] to ruling the roost. Speaking of education, my recollection was that you went to Pontifical College Josephinum, and you have a BA in Philosophy. And then, as you made reference to earlier, you went into the seminary at University of St. Mary of the Lake. And I was wondering, did you think that you were going to follow the priesthood, or what were you thinking when you finished your education?

Steve Thomas: One thing I learned, there’s a million reasons that people go in to the seminary, and there’s usually only a few reasons that are really legitimate. And because I had experienced such a conversion, it’s funny because when I was in high school, again, there’s just intense darkness. And I just remember picking up this little white booklet. It was Mother of Christ Crusaded. And as a teenager, I started reading it. It was about these children that Our Lady appeared to in Fatima. And so it’s the whole Fatima story. And that literally just changed my life when I read that. And it just really put me on a trajectory. And so when I experienced that, the faith and the sense that God loved [00:13:00] me and that He would do anything for me, I wanted to do anything for Him. So I felt like the best thing I could do was to go and to become a priest. And it’s funny because my son who is going in to be a priest, he asked me, he said, “Dad, what do you think?” And I just said, “Follow the desires of your heart. Whether you’re a holy father of a family or a priest, it doesn’t matter as long as, again, you seek God in everything that you do.”

Steve Thomas: And in fact, my spiritual director was just one of the best listeners I’ve ever come across. And usually he was one of those people that would let you work through things and own it yourself. And I had asked him, I said, “John, do you think I should be a priest?” And he goes, “No.” It’s like very direct. [both laughing] I was waiting for maybe pray about it and do some things and maybe… And he’s like flat out, “No.” So I knew it was time to move on.

David Hirsch: Sounds like he pushed you out of the nest.

Steve Thomas: Yeah, that’s right. And I needed it.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Very interesting. From a career standpoint, my recollection was you went into the family custom cabinet business for a better part of two decades.

Steve Thomas: Yep, went into [00:14:00] that and did really well. Became an expert at it. Was there for almost 20 years. And then when the housing crash in 2008 came about, it was devastating because new construction, residential construction was just dead. And so I was forced to flee out of that.

David Hirsch: And where did your career take you subsequently?

Steve Thomas: A friend of mine who I respect, he was the one that recommended insurance. So I decided to go into corporate insurance even though I had absolutely no experience. So I networked my way into getting an opportunity with this Goldman Sachs owned company. And for three years, just learned a lot about the science of selling. I knew the art of selling, but the science of it, measuring and all that, I learned a lot about that with this company.

David Hirsch: Those are important skills to have, selling skills, just to know that there is a science.

Steve Thomas: There is a science. Yeah.

David Hirsch: I’ll just reflect for a moment. When I took a big leap of faith from public accounting, because I thought I wanted to be a big eight public accounting partner when I graduated from college and got a little bit disillusioned by [00:15:00] being an auditor and tax accountant. And I took a leap of faith and got into the brokerage industry and came to learn very quickly that it’s all about cold calling. And our managers expected us to make 100+ cold calls a day. That takes a lot of discipline to physically dial the phone. And then you realize it takes a lot of mental discipline to put up with the rejection that comes along with cold calling and just, it’s a numbers game, right? If you take things personally, it’s not for you.

Steve Thomas: I know. I never really did the cold calling. I tried it a few times. I go, this is stupid. I just, everything that I did was warm introduction. In fact, I created a software product around this whole concept. The warm introduction was everything. And so introductions for me were gold. And that’s what I learned early on was that making introductions, that was the thing that was going to get me to the next level. And I did really well. I was one of their better producers when it came to creating opportunities. And so I was able to do that quite well, but I hated the corporate life. I was not a corporate person. I am an entrepreneur, like a maverick. [00:16:00] And in fact, they tried to create a position for me as like originator, which they didn’t have in their model. I was like, I’m done with this. I can’t take it.

David Hirsch: One of the businesses that I believe you’re still involved with is called Biz Intro LLC. Is that what you’re referring to as being this introduction platform?

Steve Thomas: Correct. Yeah, Biz Intro. Started that a while ago and we tried a number of different times, different launches and whatnot. Yeah. The whole premise of that is that, again, introductions, easy introduction, it actually tracks the introduction and actually has scheduling built into it. So it’s a software product that, everybody loved it. I’ve had CTOs from Motorola that said, “I think you’re onto something.” And I love software. I created another software product in the construction industry as well. And I sold that. And actually looking to continue building software as well as writing books.

David Hirsch: Okay. So I’m curious to know how did you and Ginny meet.

Steve Thomas: That’s a good question. So it was actually a blind date. Friends of ours… I was coming out of the seminary. I wanted to [00:17:00] have a family. I wanted to get married, have a family. And so he had recommended this one person, my wife, Ginny. And I go, “I want somebody fun.” And it’s funny because my friend’s wife at the time, told her who she wanted to get, me get together with her. She goes, “I want somebody good.” And so we both had these same like extreme responses to each other. And then 30, 33 years later we’re still going strong.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I love this story. Thank you for sharing. So let’s talk about special needs on a personal level. And I’m curious to know, prior to your twin’s birth, did you or Ginny have any connection to the disability or special needs community?

Steve Thomas: No, actually we didn’t. It was really when we had our twins that we experienced some of the struggles around that. And they struggle with mental health issues. So our one son, he really started to go downhill fast. And again, as parents, you just don’t know what to do. It was just driving us crazy, trying to watch him and monitor. And finally it just, it went off the [00:18:00] deep end and he just got really dark and pulled a knife on me and I go, “Put the knife away.” I acted like it was nothing, but I knew I had to call the police. And so I literally went and called the police and met with them. And once I was talking to them at the end of the driveway, we hear this pop. And he had found a gun and was shooting towards us. And I’m like, oh my goodness. And so from there it just spiraled. And he ended up being incarcerated and thankfully then he got into the mental health system. Since they properly diagnosed him, he’s done just fantastic and he’s doing great today.

David Hirsch: So what was the diagnosis of the individual that you’re making reference to?

Steve Thomas: It was reactive schizophrenic. At first they thought it was bipolar, but it was some type of reactive schizophrenic. Yeah, and so they diagnosed him. On the right meds, doing great. And then our other son had struggled with anxiety. OCD. He’s actually just doing just fantastic with the proper medication.

David Hirsch: And what age were the boys diagnosed?

Steve Thomas: It was close to [00:19:00] the same time. So I would say it was the early 20s when John and David were diagnosed.

David Hirsch: And did you suspect that something was going on before then? Or did you realize later as they were getting into their young adulthood that you had some issues that you’re dealing with?

Steve Thomas: It was a slow progression. It literally went over probably two, three years where it was just a slow kind of degradation. It was just a really tough time. It’s a really tough time.

David Hirsch: Were there some fears that you and Ginny had when you realized that you had some consequential issues that you’re dealing with?

Steve Thomas: Yeah. Oh yeah. So there were times where my wife would literally sleep in the hallway outside his door, because we just didn’t know what he was going to do. When it got really bad, it spiraled to such a point where we didn’t know what to do, and when everything hit the fan, thankfully, we knew that at least it would force us and force him to get some type of treatment.

David Hirsch: And this is the better part of a decade ago, because the twins are 30 now?

Steve Thomas: Yes. He [00:20:00] was incarcerated about seven years ago.

David Hirsch: And is he still incarcerated?

Steve Thomas: Actually he’s in a minimum security facility right now, and he’s getting ready to transition out. Like I said, he had been in Chester Mental Health, which is maximum security down in Southern Illinois. And ever since they really diagnosed him correctly and gave him the correct medication, he hasn’t had any relapses or any other events that have happened since then, actually. So he’s done fantastic.

David Hirsch: I’m really glad to hear that there seems to have been a turning point, right? Maybe it was getting the diagnosis, getting on the meds and just getting the help, like you said, right? The intervention that was necessary to help him put a situation in perspective and provide him with some opportunities to deal with, handle, some of the challenges that he deals with on an ongoing basis.

Steve Thomas: Yeah, if I could share one more thing, David. I have to say, as a Christian, we always find redemptive things about even the most horrible tragedies. With everything that happened with our son, there was so much grace and so much blessing that came as a result of [00:21:00] that. Just even myself, I know that the way I look at people who are incarcerated, people in the streets, people with mental illness, it developed in me a much greater compassion for people like that. And even with our one son who’s working the streets of the Bronx, New York, it’s funny because we homeschooled the kids and probably sheltered them too much. But now our son’s working with people in the streets, the prostitutes, the pimps, the drug dealers, the people with mental health issues. So I think for all of our family, even though it was very difficult, it still brought I’d say an enormous amount of grace that kind of changed us and kept us from becoming too I don’t know, judgmental, self righteous. It just really changed that for us. So there was some silver lining to the cloud.

David Hirsch: Yeah it’s like a burst of sunshine.

Steve Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I see that. I was gonna say, David, are you glowing?

David Hirsch: That’s too funny. It does help you put things into perspective because if you [00:22:00] don’t have somebody, a family member with a disability or special needs, it’s hard to appreciate. If you’ve never known anybody who’s been incarcerated, it’s really difficult to understand what that’s all about. It’s like a lot of things in life when you are able to walk in somebody’s shoes or you’re close to a situation like that it just enhances your understanding. But this is part of humanity and not all of us walk a straight line. There’s a lot of twists and turns and ups and downs. And unfortunately every once in a while, people mess up and not inconsequential ways, but sometimes consequential ways. And there are consequences to our actions. There are certain expectations that society has and if you step across the line or blast across the line, you need to be prepared for what that entails. So thank you for sharing and your transparency about that. Was there some meaningful advice that you got on the way that helped you and Ginny put these situations in perspective?

Steve Thomas: I know there’s an organization, NAMI, which we had reached out [00:23:00] to, and they provided some resources that were helpful. We also helped other families. So when we experienced some of the things we experienced that other people were experiencing. So we did reach out to other people. And people knew of our situation. We didn’t try to hide it. And so they did know to send people to us as a resource. And so we would share with them different things that we found out again, mistakes we made, but also things that were helpful. So we did try to share some of that.

David Hirsch: Is NAMI the National Association for Mental Illness?

Steve Thomas: Yes.

David Hirsch: Okay. Yeah, they do great work. Not to focus on the negative, but what have been some of the bigger challenges that you’ve encountered, either as it relates to David’s OCD, anxiety, or John’s mental illness?

Steve Thomas: Like I said, I try not to focus on the negative and more on the positive. I think early on it was a lot more difficult. Early on, again, as you’re in it, as you’re going to the court dates, as you’re, all the things that are going on, it’s a struggle. But again, we just always try to stay [00:24:00] positive. We always try to focus on, even as it’s happening, just thanking God that he didn’t take his life. He had a gun, he was shooting out the window, you know what I mean? So it’s just really thankful. Things could have gotten a lot worse. And now they’re both doing great. They’re both highly functioning and David does video with my wife. She’s got a video company. And so again, he’s gifted beyond measure. David and John. John is just right now, he’s got a great gift to work with the elderly. He had done that previous to him getting really sick. The facility where he’s at right now, he’s like in charge of all the patients. Trying to make things better and better. You know, things like that.

David Hirsch: Yeah. He sounds like a nice young man who’s just unfortunately had some missteps, right? And at a pretty consequential point in his life. And it sounds like there’s been some learning all around, which gets me thinking what impact have the twins’ situation had on their siblings, your marriage or the extended family for that matter?

Steve Thomas: In regards to our marriage, I would say it probably brought us closer [00:25:00] together. Because of the suffering and the struggle, it was something that we had to lean on each other. Besides our faith in God, we had to lean on each other. And so I would say that it strengthened our relationship.

Steve Thomas: In regards to the siblings, it was a challenge for some of our, like our younger daughters. In hindsight, I realized how I could have led better as the father because they didn’t feel safe. And I didn’t really realize that back then. And I probably should have done something or taken some type of precautions as a result of that. But yeah, I would say things as they are now, they’re at peace with everything and they have great relationships with all the siblings.

David Hirsch: Yeah. And your extended family?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, everybody, really, everybody likes John and Dave, everybody loves them. Yeah, there’s no real negative situations in our family with them.

David Hirsch: It sounds like Steve, your oldest, the one who’s a Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in the Bronx, has probably been called, the strongest calling, I should say. What is he [00:26:00] doing again?

Steve Thomas: So what they do is they really, they go into, find your crappiest part of town and you’ll see them there. So they go and they work with the poorest of the poor and that’s their calling. St. Francis, he had a great love for the poor. And so they try to emulate his charisma and really just take care of the people in the streets. And he loves it. He just got back from Honduras. They were down there building, I think, a church. I think they built it in five days, which was incredible. So yeah, he’s really found a lot of happiness and joy in serving that way.

David Hirsch: Yeah it sounds like he was the one that pursued the thought or idea that you had when you were a young man.

Steve Thomas: That was one of the things that was said at our wedding. Bishop Caffer goes, “We didn’t get Steve, but maybe we’ll get at least one of his kids.” And so, I guess that was prophetic.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it sounds like it.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. [00:27:00] Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: Let’s switch gears. You took a very interesting journey called Operation True Cross. What was that? When did it take place? Who was involved?

Steve Thomas: So Operation True Cross took place about a year and a half ago. A good friend of mine actually orchestrated everything. Again, this was after, I explained to you about the, basically doing a Eucharistic procession across the country. We got pushed out of that. So we decided that we’re going to walk with the relic of the True Cross in the form of a cross. So from the north, south, east, west. There was probably about 12 guys that were part of it, all at different times. And I was actually a part [00:28:00] of the second, we’ll call it beam of the cross. And so I walked from the East coast – so the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception – to the center of the country. It was probably about 650 miles. We walked through the Appalachian Mountains. The incline and everything was very challenging for me. There were days where I was walking where every step was just sheer agony. But again, it was a pilgrimage. It was meant to be a prayer. So we were praying for our country, for marriage, for family, for church. So all total, it was 4,500 miles.

David Hirsch: That sounds like quite an undertaking.

Steve Thomas: We just had a blast. So we, we’re walking through the day and then at night we’d always find a nice establishment. And so we’d go there and they’d have a couple of drinks and I’d smoke a cigar. And we just had the best time while we were walking across the country.

David Hirsch: And how many miles would you cover on a daily basis on average?

Steve Thomas: Probably about between 30 and 35 miles a day. We were actually taking turns. Sometimes we would start when it was still dark, but there [00:29:00] was one time I remember, again, we’re in the mountains, right? We’re in the Appalachian mountains and we’re on a trail and it’s dark. And I’m walking and I’m thinking to myself, every noise you hear could be a black bear, like coming down to have a snack. And, so yeah, of course the prayers were a little bit more intense at that point. But yeah, we’d walk from early, early morning until we couldn’t see anymore at night.

Steve Thomas: So we cover quite a bit of ground and we take turns. I would walk one leg and then another person would walk another leg and we’d take turns doing it. That’s how we’re able to do that. The actual walk took about eight months to complete. So I was walking for a total of one month. So I walked from the East coast and then also a little bit from the South. But it, yeah, it was over probably an eight-month period that everything was completed.

David Hirsch: And would you consider it a transformative experience for you or some of the others?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, for sure. It was, again, it’s not something that a lot of people do, first of all. Nor should they. But it was something that was quite, [00:30:00] for me, it was very transformative. Every day you’re walking, you’re praying. And it was intense. There were times where it was very intense, where we felt like what we were doing made a difference, that it was going to make a difference in our country and what was going on spiritually. We believe there’s this whole different spiritual realm that’s out there that we don’t see that exists and that we actually have a, we’re a part of. And so we felt very much a part of that spiritual realm in praying for our country and for marriage and family.

David Hirsch: So were you able to connect with people along the way either like you knew you’re going to connect with them in advance or just impromptu connections? How would you describe it?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, so actually that was the funnest part because we met all kinds of people en route. Again, whether it was at the restaurant or police. We’ve had police go, you know, kind of like, what the hell are you guys doing? Why are you walking at this hour of the night? And, they were just blown away that people would actually take the time to pray for this country. And some of the people that we met in the restaurants, the waitresses, [00:31:00] we just had intense conversations, transformative conversations with them about their lives. And we tried to convey to them that God loved them and that there was purpose for their life. And so that was, yeah, that part of it was the best part for sure.

David Hirsch: Any stories of conversion that you came across?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, actually. Again, I would say every person that we really got into it with we were able to get really deep with them and bring them to a level of I want to get back to God. I want to get back to my faith. So as far as conversion, I didn’t have my conversion meter on at the time, but I’m guessing that they were brought closer to God. So I think that, yeah, there were some, definitely some positive experiences.

David Hirsch: So I’d like to talk a little bit about the book that came out at the end of 2023 entitled Catholic Joe Superhero. And I’m wondering what’s the backstory on that.

Steve Thomas: I actually started it decades ago, but again, eight kids and just didn’t quite have the time to sit down and just take a block of six hours and start writing. It [00:32:00] wasn’t until I finished that pilgrimage, it wasn’t until I finished that that I really felt the desire, the ability, the grace to really start writing it, to actually finish the book.

Steve Thomas: And as far as the backstory goes, as a guy, a Catholic, I just felt like we were always getting our butts kicked. I felt in society and culture, one story after another of abuse and this and that. And I was just sick and tired of getting my butt kicked. And I just, you know what? So I created this figure who kicks butt. And so he’s somebody that, again, you live vicariously through. All those news stories that you see, where you get tied up in knots inside where you’re like, oh, I can’t believe that the FBI raided that guy’s house and his kids were crying. And I can’t believe they’re trying to paint these parents as terrorists that are just asking questions at the school board meeting. So I created chapters that deal with these things. Joe, he handles them in his own way. And so I actually had a lot of fun writing it. It was very [00:33:00] therapeutic too. I would probably add that part of the reason, the backstory, was I needed therapy and it was a good therapy for me to write the book.

David Hirsch: It’s not lost on me having read a couple hundred pages of the book in preparation for this interview that Joe has eight kids and you have eight kids.

Steve Thomas: Mere coincidence. Mere coincidence.

David Hirsch: Okay.

Steve Thomas: Hey, what can I say? I just do what’s easiest. I’m lazy by nature. Actually I had my own kids names in. Changed them at the very end, just because it was just easier for me to write it that way.

David Hirsch: Anyway, I think it’s a brilliant. I thought it was a page turner. And there are real situations that you’re describing, right? Everyday situations that we each encounter with our siblings, with marriage, with what’s going on, what’s being taught in schools, what’s going on in the church. And you bring them to life in a very creative way. And if this is your first book, I would encourage you to continue pursuing your writing. I think it’s a well-told story in a wholesome way [00:34:00] and it deserves a bigger audience.

Steve Thomas: Thanks, David. I appreciate that.

David Hirsch: So I’m thinking about advice now, and I’m wondering what advice you can share with parents, knowing that most of our parents and specifically dads are raising a child, or in some cases multiple children, with special needs. Is there any advice that you can suggest?

Steve Thomas: Oh, geez. Yeah, just don’t be afraid to ask for help. I think our probably biggest thing was that we tried to figure it out ourselves. And I think there could be, especially in regards to mental health, there can, at different points, could be a certain amount of shame. And I think you need to realize that it’s something that, we don’t want to experience shame. We just, again it’s an illness and it’s something that, you know, we, you need help. I would reach out for help at the earliest signs in order to avoid that really big blow up moment or blow up situation.

David Hirsch: That’s good advice, not being afraid to ask for help. I sort of tongue in cheek refer to this as testosterone poisoning, and it’s an affliction that most men have, myself included. And it’s [00:35:00] the inability to ask for help or pull over and ask for directions when you’re lost. That’s just the way most guys think. And it’s not a bad situation, not entirely, to have the resilience and persistence to try to figure things out, try to fix things. When you’re up against some consequential challenges, and let’s just admit that mental illness is a consequential challenge. Autism, Down syndrome, cerebral palsy, rare disease, somebody’s blind or deaf or missing a limb or limbs. These are different challenges, right? These are consequential challenges. And to suggest that you’re going to try to do it all yourself – tough guy, super masculine – is being naive, right? And you’re going to come up short. And most importantly, your son or daughter is not going to get the resources or the intervention that they need and not reach their full potential. So you’re doing a disservice, right? You’re not being the best dad you can be. So I think your advice is spot on about having a willingness to ask for advice. Thank you.

Steve Thomas: I want to, can I point out something else, David? So you had mentioned the book and there was one thing I wanted [00:36:00] to mention because as I was getting ready to prepare to talk with you, I was thinking, and it just, it dawned on me. And again, this is spoiler alert, all right? So if you don’t want to hear what’s going to happen in the book… But I realized I had the characters, they’re getting divorced and I actually had Joe come in and save the day. And I think subconsciously every kid wants their parents to get back, right? And I think subconsciously, that’s what I wrote into it. I want a happy ending. Instead of what happened with myself, I want a happy ending. And we all want that happy ending. So I, again, in regards to if somebody’s struggling in their marriage, obviously there are situations where there might be harm, I think a lot of times, especially with guys is, we can be really selfish. And I think that you gotta really stop and think before you make that decision, tend to cut to pull the plug on that marriage. You gotta really think deep and hard about what that’s going to do long term. And yeah, the whole purpose for the book [00:37:00] was really it’s all about encouraging marriage, encouraging people to fight for marriage. There’s some things that are worth fighting for and that’s definitely one of those things.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thank you for emphasizing that. And I don’t know if it’s a spoiler alert, but I think that there’s a very clear message, and I think that when I reflect on the advocacy that I’ve done in the last 27 years since becoming a father for the fifth time, it’s trying to elevate the importance of family and the importance of marriage. And not to say that it’s right in all circumstances. These are institutions that used to have a higher value in society. And I think that a lot of the ills that we’re witnessing – drug and alcohol abuse, crime and incarceration, teen suicide and pregnancy – all get traced back to what we generically refer to as the breakdown of the family. And in actuality, it, in most cases, many cases has to do with dads not being present, right? Physically, emotionally, and spiritually present in their children’s lives. [00:38:00] So I think that’s one of the things that brings us together. I feel like we’re kindred spirits, maybe coming at this from a little bit different perspective. But it’s something that’s important, something we’re passionate about. And I applaud you for taking some of the entrepreneurial skills that you have and deploying them into this publication, Catholic Joe Superhero, and I hope that as a result of your efforts, it’s only been out for a couple three months, that it will continue to enjoy a wider and wider audience.

Steve Thomas: Thanks, David. And I do have one thing I want to add. This just came to me. Think about, so I’m going to get religious on you again. The last prophet of the Old Testament, Malachi, all right? Read the last chapter of Malachi. And it talks about the coming of Elijah, and the coming of Elijah, what he would do is he would turn the hearts of fathers back to their children and children back to their fathers. And it mentions fathers specifically. But there’s something distinct and unique that that is [00:39:00] the last prophet of the Old Testament and the last paragraph. That is so important. And I just want people to think about that and meditate on that. That is the answer. It is really the answer to so many, so many ills in our society.

David Hirsch: Yeah, point well made. Let’s give a special shout out to our mutual friend, Paul McConville, for helping connect us.

Steve Thomas: Alright, yeah, for sure. He’s a good man. Yeah.

David Hirsch: He’s a great man. He’s a great man.

Steve Thomas: Yeah.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about your book, Catholic Joe Superhero, or contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Steve Thomas: Yeah, I would just go to the website, CatholicJoeSuperhero.com. And you can look at it, you can buy it. That’s the place to go.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up.

Steve Thomas: Excellent.

David Hirsch: Steve, thank you for taking the time and many insights. As a reminder, Steve is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or if you are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar [00:40:00] situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax-deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Steve, thanks again.

Steve Thomas: Thank you, David.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join [00:41:00] our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to David@ 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Tom Couch: Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics, who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com.