303 – Allan Turner of Mansfield, TX Proprietor of Turner Insurance Group, Father of Three Including One With Down Syndrome

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics mission at HorizonTherapeutics.com.

Allan Turner: I just want everyone to know the message that your child can. You can, as a parent, advocate for your child, or as anyone. Just that message that my son, Isaiah, gives everyone is just remember that you can.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Allan Turner, an insurance executive and father of three children, including Isaiah, 10, who has Down syndrome. Allan has lots to say about how a special needs dad can and should help his kid be the best he or she can be. It’s an inspiring conversation, and we’ll hear it on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, [00:01:00] and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

David Hirsch: On Saturday, May 11th, the 21st Century Dads Foundation will be hosting its 5th Annual Special Fathers Network Dads Virtual Conference. This year’s theme is SELF CARE: Being Selfish So You Can Be Selfless. We’ve assembled a great roster of presenters and there will be plenty of time for small group breakouts so you can meet like-minded dads striving to be the best dads they can be and to help their children reach their full God-given potential. Registration is free. For more information and to register, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s hear this inspiring conversation between Allan Turner and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Allan Turner of Mansfield, Texas, proprietor of Turner Insurance Group and father of three, including one with Down syndrome. Allan, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast [00:02:00] interview with the Special Fathers Network.

Allan Turner: Thank you.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Ebony, have been married for 23 years and are the proud parents of three children: Anaiah, 19; Jael, 17; and Isaiah, 10, who has Down syndrome. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Allan Turner: I grew up in Dallas, Texas, and I am the oldest of five. Mom and dad married, wonderful family life growing up with just me for the longest till I was eight. Then my little brother came into the picture and then it was like that’s when my mom and dad divorced and life changed a little bit after that. Really enjoyed my being the only child for those first eight years. So that was really fun. But yeah, Dallas, Texas was awesome. It’s home for me. I really enjoy it. I just remember my dad being able to take me different places and do different things. We would go to different games, basketball games, or just remember all those different things we did. So we’ll get into that a little bit later on. But it was really fun. And then of course my little brother got into the picture and then more siblings after that.

David Hirsch: So out of [00:03:00] curiosity, what did your dad do for a living?

Allan Turner: My dad was a roofer, an entrepreneur. And he would get all of the neighborhood guys, the high school kids that were older than me, and he would give them jobs and tell them, come help him work on roofs. So it was fun to be with the older guys and I’m a little kid. So they’re all like my brothers looking after me. So that was fun.

David Hirsch: When you think about your relationship with your dad, how would you describe that?

Allan Turner: First eight years, me and him. Totally. Just me and him. That’s it. And I am a junior, so obviously I’m his namesake. So it was just us. I think he was just super proud to have me. I think he was really proud to have a little him running around That’s what everyone says. They’re like, “You look exactly like him.” We were that. We were really close, really tight. And then that kind of changed when my parents divorced. Partly his fault, partly my mom’s fault. Divorces happen. Their perspective. As a kid seeing that’s one thing. But as an adult, I understand now what was going on. But as a kid, it seemed like mom moved me away from him and wasn’t allowing me to do whatever. And then he [00:04:00] wasn’t coming around. So it was like wait a minute. Where are you? What are you doing? So I blamed him for not doing, but as you get older, you start seeing the different dynamics that are in relationships. I understand now those things. Still felt like he could have fought harder to see me more often but yeah, life goes on and we all learn.

David Hirsch: What do you think the more important takeaways are from your relationship with your dad? Maybe a lesson or two learned?

Allan Turner: One thing I always said is when I tell my kids something, I’m always going to make sure I do it, I follow through. And if anyone makes promises to my children, I always make sure that they follow through on those promises, or they just don’t make those promises to them. That was one thing I noticed as a kid. If you’re going to promise something, make sure you do it. Please follow through. Because as a kid, you remember. Maybe as an adult, okay, but as a kid, you put your whole world in on that. Those are things I always say to myself, I will make sure if I tell my kids I want to do something, I need to make sure I do that so that they have that going through.

David Hirsch: Yeah, those words are ringing very strong in my ears as well. That your word is your bond.[00:05:00]

Allan Turner: Yeah.

David Hirsch: If I say I’m going to do something, you can count on it. And I think that the underlying characteristic is trust, right? You can trust me, right? And if you grew up in a very trusting environment, you might take it for granted. But if you grew up in an environment that wasn’t so trusting, then it becomes really important to you. And that’s what I heard you saying.

Allan Turner: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Because that was my experience as well. I’m thinking about your grandfathers, first on your dad’s side. And what did your grandfather Turner do?

Allan Turner: He did multiple different jobs. What I remember the most, one of the jobs that he did was working at the laundromat. He was the person that opened and closed it. So I thought he was so important because he had the keys to this major place. And he could go in and turn the lights off and close the doors. Now, of course, we find out later on that, I’m older now, though, as a janitor. But as a kid, I’m like, wow, you have control of this big, major place and they trust you to handle it. So I was able to go in when there’s no one else in there and walk around. So that’s what he did.

Allan Turner: But really, outside of his job, what I really [00:06:00] remember the most was a garden. He liked the garden. And so I remember going out in the garden with him and we would pick tomatoes, we would pick all kinds of different vegetables. And I just really remember spending that time with him and just getting my hand in the dirt with him. And it was like a little lot across the street from my house, from my grandmother’s house. And we used to go over there and just be in that garden all day. And he was standing there when he was not at work. That’s where we would find him at. And he would go over there and just grow all kinds of things. So I liked being over there. So that was really cool. That was the best thing I remember the most about him was being in the garden with him.

David Hirsch: Excellent. How about your grandfather on your mom’s side, your maternal grandfather?

Allan Turner: Yeah. And I never got to meet my maternal grandfather because he passed away. So never got to have that relationship. But what I did see from my uncles and from my mother and aunts, I know he had a major influence on them. So even though I never met him physically, I still feel like I have a little bit of that from him.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Sorry that he passed away at [00:07:00] such a young age, your mom’s young age, and that through some uncles, maybe you learned a little bit more about him and some other men stepped into your life to be those positive adult male role models in his absence.

David Hirsch: So my recollection was that you went to the University of Texas, Boston. And what type of degree did you take there?

Allan Turner: I did computer science, computer engineering technician. I was an engineer basically for 10 years and got tired of the industry, or shall I say the industry started closing in on me. During that time, there was a lot of industry closures. And if you wanted to stay in the industry, you had to go to Europe, you had to go to Germany, or you had to go to… Samsung was one of them, you had to go to Korea. And I wasn’t going to do any of that so I said I needed to find something else to do. And 10 years later, I went to insurance, and now 17 years later from that, it’s where I’m at. Yeah.

David Hirsch: So what was it that prompted you to go to the insurance industry?

Allan Turner: Really, I was really looking at what can I do that can be my own boss, my own business. We started having children and I’m like I want to be there with my kids, but I want to be able to have the freedom to do [00:08:00] the things I want us to do with them. So obviously that first two years my oldest daughter was born and before my baby girl was born. I was working nights, so we didn’t have to pay for daycare per se. But that was rough when you’re working 10 hours, and then you come home and you have a baby at home, and then your wife is going off to work, so that was a little rough.

Allan Turner: So I was like, there’s got to be an easier, better way to do this. So I decided to be a home inspector as well as insurance, so I didn’t go home at the same time, and insurance took off. But yeah, the insurance world I really gravitated towards that and that took off and then that’s where I’m at today,

David Hirsch: What type of work does Turner Insurance do?

Allan Turner: Every type of insurance except auto and home.

David Hirsch: How big is your agency? How many agents do you have?

Allan Turner: We have 70+ agents at the moment. I always want to be the one to tell them, look, I have opportunities for you. If you’re willing to work, I’m willing to get those and make those opportunities happen for you as well, because when you win, I win. But if you’re just one of those where, hey, I just want to make a little money here and there, [00:09:00] you can also be here as well. But I’m just not going to pour as much into you because your commitment isn’t there. And I know that’s the way any of you feel. Except I’m just not going to micromanage you. I’m just going to tell you, you want to do it, come on board and it is rewarding. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Excellent. I can identify a little bit with what you do as a financial services professional for the last 39 years. You do have to be a self starter, right? Somebody who is willing to put themselves out there. And my business was built on cold calling. Not everybody’s cup of tea. Making 100+ phone calls a day. 2,000 a month. Do the math, that’s 24,000 calls a year. And it’s humbling, right? Because you need to develop a pretty thick skin. And I think it prepares you for other things in life too. You don’t take things personally. And you can build a very successful business on a 1 or 2 percent success ratio, but it does take somebody who’s very long-term in their thinking and who’s very committed, right? Like you were saying. And if you put the effort out, there are rewards to be gained. So anyway, I can appreciate what you were saying.

David Hirsch: So I’m curious to know, how did you and [00:10:00] Ebony meet?

Allan Turner: So believe it or not, we actually hung around the same circles, but we were a blind date. So all of our friends knew each other; they all knew me, they all knew her, but we’ve never met each other. And so we were on a blind date and she stalked me after that. That’s my recollection. She won’t tell you that’s the same deal. But it was a pretty good blind date. And then about two weeks later I gave her a call and then ever since then we’ve been together ever since, but yeah.

David Hirsch: So was it in college that you met?

Allan Turner: It was in college. It was my third year. It was her fourth year and she was going off to law school and so she was getting ready to graduate and that’s when we met. But we decided to get married while she was still in law school. And then so she was able to finish her last two years of law school at the University of Texas. But yeah, long story short, we were married by five years when we started having children. So yeah. And then we had our kids and then this is history. It’s what we do three years later.

David Hirsch: If your experience has been like ours, it’s hard to even remember what you were doing before you had kids. So let’s switch gears and talk about special needs [00:11:00] first on a personal level and then beyond. So prior to becoming parents, did you or Ebony have any connections to the disability or special needs community?

Allan Turner: Yeah. Funny you ask that question. My wife and I, of course, we met in college. That two week period when I did not speak to her after our blind date, it’s because I was coming back home to get my brother who was coming to come live with me in Austin. So I’m a 21 year old college student, and my brother is 14 years old. My brother has seizures. So as a result, he basically… We were kids. I guess I’m nine. He’s still a baby, so he’s a year old. One of my babysitters that we were staying with, they used to do snuff. This lady used to do like the snuff can back in the day. You spit in the can and do the whole deal. My little brother got into the can and swallowed the spit, the whatever in there. And that caused brain damage. That brain damage, he got meningitis and brain damage. And as a result, he had front temporal lobe damage. And that basically caused him to be deaf in one ear [00:12:00] and then end up having seizures.

Allan Turner: So that’s pretty much what happened. So that period of that week where I did not speak to Ebony because I was actually going to get my brother and figure out how we can get him to Austin when he was able to come with me, being a college student/working, trying to be able to get the things he needed. I could get that there in Austin. He was pretty much our first kid. My wife and I’s first kid and had him for so long. But yeah, he’s my first foray into being young and having to deal with my little brother, but I call him my kid, an individual with special needs. Learned at an early age how to handle that and then, of course, at the same time, taking care of my brother at that young age as well. Those have been my first forays into the special needs areas and just having a passion and a feeling for taking care of people.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for emphasizing that it was at a pretty young age that you got exposed almost as a father figure to your younger brother…

Allan Turner: Yeah.

David Hirsch: …to be caring for him. And he’s very fortunate to have you play that role for him as opposed to not. And I’m curious to know what is Isaiah’s diagnosis and how did that [00:13:00] come about?

Allan Turner: So Isaiah has Down syndrome. Isaiah was born March 8th, 2013. Healthy baby boy. No issues. We’re looking at him. He is perfect. Ten fingers, ten toes. Screaming like he’s, like every baby does. It comes out. He looks great. Doctors say he’s a perfect baby boy. Here you go. And I ask all those questions that daddys ask: “Is everything good? You good? You don’t see anything wrong with everything?” The doc’s like, “No, he looks great. Hey, congratulations. He’s your boy. He’s your first boy. Enjoy. Congrats.” So he’s home. He’s eating well, taking food. Everything’s going well.

Allan Turner: Two weeks later, we do our two-week doctor visit. We notice everything’s good, but he hasn’t gained any weight. He’s still doing well, but hasn’t gained any weight. Hasn’t lost any weight, but he’s not gaining weight. Still a little concerning. We’re about three weeks in. He gains a little bit of weight, but not at the level he really should be. We’re still not sure what’s going on. My daughter goes to school, kids are in school, they have germs, they do all the things that they do. So I don’t know if my oldest daughter or my middle daughter, but someone brought some germs home and got Isaiah sick. [00:14:00] So as a result, we’re taking him to the hospital because he’s coughing and wheezing and things like that. There’s an emergency room at Cook’s Children. One of the attendings there, they’re giving him breathing treatments, they completely cleared his lungs out. They said, “Oh, he’s good. He’s everything’s fine. I saw the big, huge hole in his heart. He’s fine. So he’ll be fine.” That was our first foray into Down syndrome. So we’re like, “Wait a minute. What are you talking about? Hole in his heart? What are you talking about?” Yeah. He has a huge heart murmur and the only kids that have the type of heart murmur that he has are kids with Down syndrome.

Allan Turner: So we find out first that he has this big, huge heart defect. And he’s going to need surgery to get this heart defect taken care of. Oh, and by the way, the only kids that have this type of heart defect are children with Down syndrome. We have to decide, how do we deal with this? The Down syndrome thing was just something that’s not a priority at the moment. The heart thing is. We’re spinning, we’re getting ourselves prepared for a baby that has to have heart surgery. Because you’re like, I have this kid that’s now several weeks old now. And now you found out he’s in for the fight of his life. And we didn’t know. So it felt a little [00:15:00] blindsided. Oh, and then he also has another diagnosis that we probably should have known before he was born, but still didn’t know. How do we handle that?

Allan Turner: Once we got over our initial kind of, “God, why did you do this?” which lasted for me, probably about a couple of hours. For my wife, a little bit longer, maybe a couple of days. But after that, we were like, okay. He gave it to us for a reason. Now we have to fight. And then we turned into fighting mode ever since. And so that’s what we’ve been doing. We’ve been fighting for our baby boy, all of our kids, but especially Isaiah. So that’s where we’re at now. We’re in fighting mode for him so he can live the best life that he can live.

David Hirsch: So how old was Isaiah when he had the heart surgery?

Allan Turner: He had his heart surgery when he was two and a half months. So not quite three months yet.

David Hirsch: What were some of the fears that you and Ebony had way back when?

Allan Turner: When he was getting ready to have the heart surgery, number one, he’s so little. And how do you repair a heart that’s the size of a pea, or a little bit bigger than that, or a pecan, maybe the size of a pecan. Like, how do you do something like that? So just learning the mechanics of that. But [00:16:00] Dr. Tam here at Fort Worth is a world-renowned surgeon. He was able to do this. One of the top surgeons just so happened to be here at Fort Worth Cook Children’s where Isaiah had his heart surgery. And we were able to talk to many families that had the same procedure done. And they assured us that, oh, these babies bounce back. They’re fine. He’ll have the little zipper button down his chest. So if you have any babies, any heart babies out there you dads know what that is. And he’ll be perfectly fine. And they were correct. He was perfectly fine. But going through it, you hate to see your child having to go through those type of things. But he’s bounced back well. He’s done really well.

David Hirsch: Not to focus on the negative, but what have been some of the bigger challenges over the last 10 years?

Allan Turner: So with Down syndrome, there’s a developmental delay. There’s just a general cognitive delay and everything, there’s a muscle delay. So in all of those milestones that children have to meet, he was always going to be a little bit behind. So potty training could be frustrating when you have a three year old or four year old still going on themselves. Certain things that he should have already been able to do. But we have to put it in [00:17:00] perspective. He’s actually learning, he’s like super-elastic. Like he could just really bend and do all kinds of things like that. So we look at it, wow, you have these little superpowers. Having an extra chromosome giving you superpowers. And so with those superpowers, it’s going to take some extra therapy to make sure that your muscles did, that your muscles work the way that everyone else’s muscles do. So we had to give him that grace and give us the permission to know that it’s okay, that he’s a little behind. It’s okay though, because he’s doing the best that he can and we’re allowing him to be able to do what he needs to do.

Allan Turner: But we never used the word no or can’t. And he knows it. And the other thing with him, he has no idea. He sees the sisters. And his sisters, we told him early on, this is what your brother has. And they were like, “Is he going to be okay?” And we were like, “Yeah, don’t treat him any differently.” They were like, “So he’s just like our little brother. We can beat up, do all kinds of stuff to him?” Yeah. They were like, “Okay, cool.” And that was it. And so ever since then, he’s been running with them. And so he’s seeing his older [00:18:00] sisters run and do all kinds of things. So he has no idea that he can’t. And he is doing everything that they do. So that’s really been… I believe having them has really helped him be the inspiration because they’re like, to the point to where a lot of times we’ll tell him to do something and he’ll look over to them like, is it okay? We’re the parents, not them. If you ask them, they’ll say they’re the parents. But hey, whatever.

Allan Turner: But I would say the challenges would just be like knowing that he may not be at the same level as other children. But making sure that he doesn’t fall too far behind. And the fights have been in schools, have been around society, just making sure everyone understands he could do everything that you do. It may take him a little bit longer but he can still do those excellent things. Just having that extra grace, that extra patience with him. And my job is to advocate for him as a parent because I know I’m not going to always be here, but I need to make sure that everyone that he’s around knows.

David Hirsch: Yeah you’ve been a great advocate for him and I’m curious to know what impact his situation has had on his older [00:19:00] siblings, which you made reference to a little bit, your marriage or your extended family for that matter.

Allan Turner: That’s a great question. So his siblings, I can tell you this much, they’ve learned and they’ve learned how to advocate as well. They’ve grown up with Isaiah. They see Isaiah do all kinds of things. One thing about Isaiah, he won’t necessarily show you all the things that he can do. And that’s typical of a lot of children and individuals with Down syndrome. They can actually do more than they actually let on. Because they get into the whole, “They’re so sweet, they’re so sweet” and you want to just do everything for them. You have to remember a child. You can do it, let you do it. His siblings know that. So whenever they see some of their older classmates or anyone in society that’s out there that has Down syndrome, because they’ll pick up on it immediately. And they’ll say, “Hey, they can do this. They can do that.” So they’re instantly advocating for them because they’re like, “And I know they can do it because my brother can.” And so he has that impact on them. He’s shown them the things that they can do, but also have taught them to have a voice for everyone else around them.

Allan Turner: I would say having Isaiah in our marriage, it [00:20:00] has made us stronger because we’ve been able to really advocate and fight for all of our kids. And it’s taught us how to really, not only fight for Isaiah, but to fight for all children like him. And then that extended race goes into, now we have to fight for all individuals with a disability. So that you don’t have to be a child, even an adult with a disability. We have to now fight for all of you. So that’s extended on to my business, as well as my wife’s business, who’s she’s playing her part now to not only take her advocacy further. She’s now running for public office, for State Rep. And she’s looking to try to change the laws in our state to make sure that our individuals with disabilities are represented, really, in our schools. That’s been the biggest fight. So she’s looking to make sure that just any individual with a disability is being represented in the schools, make sure they’re getting, that they basically can learn.

Allan Turner: Right now, I think our schools look at if you have a disability, you just can’t, you can’t learn. And remember, we don’t use the word “can’t” in our home. We use the word “can.” And everyone needs to adopt that attitude. Isaiah has really taught us that, wow, look at this child doing the things that [00:21:00] when we physically saw him not able to turn over on his own, not able to crawl, and now he runs around like every other kid and you would have no idea that he has Down syndrome and overcame the challenges that he did. We know he was able to do that. We know that all children can do the same thing. And so society needs to give these children — that’s your teachers, that’s your church leaders, that’s your, your other people’s brothers, siblings, what have you — allow people to be able to do, live the best lives that they’re able to do.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

Allan Turner: Within my [00:22:00] business, I’ve made sure that I’m able to advocate specifically for individuals with disabilities by making sure that our insurance companies don’t discriminate against our individuals with disabilities. So I’ve worked diligently with different companies to make sure that there’s products geared for individuals with disabilities who did nothing but be born a certain way. And so if you can’t discriminate against me because of my color, my race, my sex, my gender, then you should not also be discriminating against me because I was just born with a disability.

Allan Turner: And so that is also written in the law, but it’s not practiced when we look at our insurance laws. That has been a fight that I’ve had to do and it’s worked out. We’re getting some products, some different things that are working now. Isaiah has caused that change within my wife, within our marriage, within my children, within my business. And as a result, we’re seeing that kind of change throughout. It’s just our little area where we’re at, but it’s growing and growing. And that’s a result of Isaiah.

David Hirsch: Yeah thanks for sharing. I’m curious to know, what has your IEP [00:23:00] experience been?

Allan Turner: Not fun, but I’ll tell you my approach to the IEPs. When I go into a room and I talk with the teachers, because everyone knows, if you’ve ever been into an IEP, we all know, the ART meeting, everyone knows. You go in, everyone around the room is the expert of your child, and you as the parent come in and you’re just listening to what they tell you that your child can do, and then you take their recommendations, and then you’re supposed to sign off and say, okay, great, and then you leave. And then, of course, every time you leave, you go away going, this doesn’t reflect my kid at all. This isn’t quite what we want. But you don’t have the voice, so you don’t realize you have a voice to say, “Hey, no. That’s not, I don’t like this.” Because I advocate the way that I do, every meeting that we go into, I lead the meeting. They always say who everyone is around the tables and all of that. But then, I pretty much go first and I tell them, obviously, this is Mom, I’m Dad, and let me tell you about Isaiah, and the things that he can do. And I know my child, I know what my child is capable of doing, and I know the things that we want to give him that. And I always approach [00:24:00] this as he’s my child at home. When he’s here at school, I’m entrusting you to give him at the same level where we want him at. I want to make sure you’re able to do the same thing at school, and I want to work with you to get him there.

Allan Turner: So that approach, every time they come and say these are the things that we can’t do, we can’t do, or these are the things that he can’t do, and he’s not able to show, I’m able to go back and tell them let’s negotiate. How do we get this done? How do we, how do we do all these things? Now granted, eventually, after we go back and forth, they’re going to settle on something.

Allan Turner: Following the IEP has been a struggle. Part of that struggle is they’ll tell us that they, yes, we’re doing it, and then we’ll find out that actually they’re not following the IEPs. This is also part of the reason why my wife is running for State Rep. There’s really no accountability for not following the IEPs. We want to make sure that there’s some type of accountability there.

Allan Turner: Now part of the other issue of not following the IEPs is there’s lack of funding. So if these schools don’t have funding, then they can’t give you the people that they need to make sure that they’re able to follow the things that they need to do for the IEPs. And so it’s all a [00:25:00] funding issue. It’s really all a legislative issue that needs to be tackled. And I think our legislators forget or don’t really think about those children in that situation. So this is why we’re doing what we’re doing.

Allan Turner: So when you ask that question about IEPs, I think we have an understanding now after fighting and fighting with our school, the expectations that we have of them, of what they can do, but we also know now that their hands are tied. And so with their heads being tied, I give you a little bit of grace. I get you’re not able to do what I need you to do for my child. So now I can’t beat up on you when you really don’t even have the ability to do it. So I have to go above. And so that’s why that fight has led where we’re at now. So yeah.

Allan Turner: Yeah. IEP is a bit difficult. And they get more and more difficult. After about two years at a school, they may start saying things your way. But then if you change schools, you switch schools, it’s like you’re starting all over again. And so that’s what’s been frustrating. And every parent I’ve talked to has had the same situation. No one is not having to fight this fight.

David Hirsch: Thanks for being so open and [00:26:00] authentic about the experience. One of the things that I heard you say was that instead of being passive, you’re more intentional. You lead the meetings, right? Which I think is a good first step. And you’re quick to emphasize what he’s capable of as opposed to what he’s not capable of. You embrace the fact that you’re his first teachers as his parents, and he’s going to be spending X number of hours a day or a week in the classes, but you’re taking responsibility for being his first teachers. And it is unfortunate there’s a lack of accountability, but without advocating like you do or like Ebony does, why would it change or why would things improve? So I admire you for your commitment, not only on Isaiah’s behalf, but in the broader population.

David Hirsch: So let’s try to focus on the positive, which I know is your way of doing things. I’m thinking about supporting organizations. What are the organizations that have played an instrumental role, either on Isaiah’s behalf or on your family’s behalf.

Allan Turner: One, I would say it’s been a real strong, [00:27:00] helped us a lot, the Down Syndrome Partnership of North Texas, which I am a board member of, and I’ve been a member of since Isaiah was born. And then of course I joined the board later on. They’ve been instrumental in getting us connected with the different types of organizations that we needed to be involved with. So I would say they would be the gateway. So connecting you to… They will be the hub, shall I say, and they can, they have all the resources that connect you where you need to go. So they have been a strong support for our family.

Allan Turner: Another organization that was awesome. Everyone is familiar with TCU, Texas Christian University. They have one of the strongest programs, which is one of the only ones that are to my knowledge that I know of in Texas. They have a learning school and they basically from ages 18 months to six years old. They specialize in making sure their children with Down syndrome, specifically Down syndrome, they make sure that they’re able to get them up to walking, talking and basically get them up to school age.

Allan Turner: So our kiddos that come from TCU, [00:28:00] KinderFrogs. And they call it Kinder, like kindergarten. Kinder. And then frogs like horned frogs, which is their logo. They call them KinderFrogs. They get them completely ready for school so that our children, when they go into kindergarten, they’re at the same level as the rest of their peers.

Allan Turner: I would say those two organizations have been just awesome. There’s also a newly formed organization that I’d be remiss not to mention, the Black Down Syndrome Association. That organization specifically looked at individuals of color, black children specifically. We have our own unique needs as parents. Our community, a lot of times, does not know about the resources, does not know how to go about finding those resources. And that Black Down Syndrome Association is just like the Down Syndrome Partnership of North Texas. They’re like a hub. And so they connect those families, those Black families to other families and other organizations so that they can also get those resources that are needed.

Allan Turner: So I would say those are just really instrumental in making sure that our family is where we need to go. [00:29:00] Plus friends, church groups and all that good stuff. But yeah, those I would say would be the main three organizations that really got us where we needed.

David Hirsch: Yeah, thanks for sharing. It’s encouraging to hear about them. So in a prior conversation, you mentioned that there’s two associations, and I don’t remember if it was Calstar Corporation or what the connection was, but I’m wondering if you can share with our listeners…

Allan Turner: That’s correct. As I was telling you, Isaiah has caused advocacy on every front of our lives, and in my business as well. Part of what happened is, I started contacting a lot of my insurance companies. My go-to insurance companies. One of them I will not mention by name, but they were instrumental in helping me. I had a young individual. Healthy, completely healthy individual that happened to not have Down syndrome, but have something else. Their insurance company denied it. And they said our insurance records say that we can’t have anyone with this. It’s an automatic denial. This individual is working. This individual is doing great. Their life expectancy, just in general for an individual that was born with that, [00:30:00] it’s like to age 66. Why are you denying coverage for an individual just because they were born that way? And I told them about the facts of how folks with Down syndrome are living a lot longer lives, a lot more productive, because we’ve now learned with research, the more you get them started early with therapies and all of that, they can live just as fruitful and wonderful lives as everyone else. This particular insurance company was not aware of all of the facts that was presented. So of course, they presented it to their head underwriter. That head underwriter said, “Hey, I’m so sorry. I don’t know. I don’t know how we can make any changes, but I want to go about trying to help you with that.” So they connected me with some partners out of California.

Allan Turner: Those partners in California have developed what they call the Calstar organization. And what the Calstar group… Calstar is Cal, like California, C-A-L. And star, S-T-A-R. They do group life insurance. So it’s a guaranteed life insurance product. And what that does is for any individual 18 to 74 years old, if you are looking for health insurance, they’re guaranteed issue health insurance policies. That allows for our families who [00:31:00] have not been able to get their loved ones any insurance, now they’re able to get some type of insurance plan. And so not only is it life products, they’re health products, they’re indemnity type products, meaning they’re critical illness policies, guaranteed issues. Their own division, all those different things.

Allan Turner: One thing as an agent every time I walk into a family’s home, I want to be able to help everyone from the babies all the way to my seniors. And if you’re an aid, and you’re truly out there helping a family, you don’t ever want to walk into a home, a family of five, let’s say, and you’re able to help all four people in the family, but the one that has special needs, you can’t help, or a disability, you can’t help. I wanted to always make sure that I had something to be able to offer that. That’s where that program came about, and just all the different things that they are. And so that is one of the things that we do through my company and you can access that whole program through my website, which I guess I’ll let you know it’s www.TurnerInsuranceGroup. net. And if you look on there, they’re called Guaranteed Issued Products. And those Guaranteed Issued Life [00:32:00] Products is life and health. Those guaranteed issued products will allow you to be able to get 20 year term, $20,000 term life policy guaranteed issue. And allow you a bit of a critical illness policy, which covers up to $30,000 if you can get critical illness, any type of critical acute illness that hits your family. Those things are available in there.

Allan Turner: Thank you for asking about that. But I am proud… and we’re getting more and more companies every day getting involved in that, because they’re starting to see the need. You’re leaving a whole demographic out, and so we need to make sure that we are covering that demographic, especially with technology being what it is. That demographic is living, and they’re living long lives, and they’re having families, and so they need to be as protected just like you and I. We need to help them move, and so this is one way of slowly getting that there. I just felt I wasn’t sure if I needed to do a lawsuit at first, because I was like, you guys are discriminating against someone who is able to live. And all they did was be, they had the crime of being born with a disability. That’s actually [00:33:00] discriminatory. And they agreed and said, hey, let’s figure out another way to be able to do this. This is another way of being able to get this done. But more and more companies are finding out about it, and they’re getting on board.

David Hirsch: Thank God for organizations like Calstar Corporation.

Allan Turner: Yeah.

David Hirsch: I also remember you saying something about EMA, Emergency Alliance Membership. What is that or how does that connect to everything else?

Allan Turner: So what is EMA, the Emergency Alliance Group? They are the ones that are doing that particular $20,000 life insurance policy. They’re the ones that do that. And so the EMA Alliance, that particular group is just like an AARP or a AAA group or whatever. Those are associations that you would have to join. Once you join the association, you pay a $25 one-time fee, and you get access to theme parks and movie tickets and all kinds of discounts you get along in that association as well as that $20,000 term life product that’s available. That’s only available through them. And so yes, it is through Colonial Life. That is the company [00:34:00] that underwrites it. And that’s the company that’s giving it to you. But if you were to call Colonial Life, they would never offer you that product because it’s a specialized product that’s only through the EMA Association. So EMA is an association that you will be joining. And then of course, in that association is where you’re going to take advantage of that life product. So thank you for asking about that as well.

David Hirsch: And what was the other one that was like Wellness for America?

Allan Turner: That’s correct. So Wellness for America is also the same type of association. There’s two different ones, but it’s just an association as well. And what it does, it allows you to be able to get your critical illness, that product that I was telling you about, the critical illness product. It allows you to be able to get your accidental policies, your accident, health, any of those types of things that most individuals don’t have very often yet.

David Hirsch: Yeah thank you for sharing. I’ll be sure to include some information in the show notes so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to learn about that. So I’m thinking about advice now, and I’m wondering what advice specifically you might have, Allan, for a younger dad who finds [00:35:00] himself with a diagnosis, whether it’s Down syndrome or something else.

Allan Turner: What I would say to the younger dads, you’re not in this by yourself. So don’t take it on yourself. Don’t feel like, wow, was it my fault? Did I do something? I always tell my young people who I talk to — when I’m saying young people, like they’re young but younger dads that, that have found themselves in a diagnosis situation — you’d have one day to feel bad for yourself, to feel however you need to feel. I’m going to give you that one day. The next day, you need to fight for your child. So I always tell individuals, it’s okay, get it out, whatever you need to get out that first day, get it out. After that, you start advocating for your child. No one else is going to do it but you. And how you advocate is you start asking questions. And you don’t stop until you get the answers that you’re looking for. And if that doctor or that social worker or that family member in the world tells you you can’t, then you move on to the next one until you get an “I can” answer. So that’s what I will tell you every day. It’s just God gave you this child and it’s your job to advocate and fight for your child, just like you fight for all [00:36:00] your children.

Allan Turner: So this isn’t really, oh, my child has special needs. This is, you have a child. It is your responsibility to fight for that child. Whether they were born with special needs or they were just regular, just doesn’t matter. That’s your job as a parent. Fight for your kids, all of your kids. Treat them as if they’re able to do as everyone else because they can. And just keep continuing to ask the questions. Whatever questions you have, just keep asking. And advocate. I just always say advocate, not just for your child, but for your loved ones, for your older individuals, your parents, your grandparents.

Allan Turner: And we’re in that generation where we have to take care of our parents and our children. So we need to make sure we’re fighting for both of them. And one thing I know about this life, if you don’t get out of it unscathed, you more than likely will have a disability. I don’t care what it is. If you break your arm, you now have a disability. You can grow out of that disability because your arm is going to heal, but you have a disability for a certain period of time, so you have to think of it in those terms. You broke your arm, you have to get some assistance to help you heal, to get better. Sometimes [00:37:00] you may not ever get better from it. But there’s aids, there’s adaptive things to help you get there. It’s your responsibility, or the person around you, your loved ones, and make sure that they go and help you get those adaptive things that you need so that you can live the best life that you can.

David Hirsch: Yeah I love it. It’s a crystal clear message. You’re not by yourself. You need to be the best advocate you can be for your typical as well as atypical kids. And be positive. Emphasize what is possible as opposed to maybe what might be more difficult. I’m curious to know why is it that you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Allan Turner: Why have I agreed? Because I actually do this already. [David chuckling] This is just something I already do. It’s already in me. So I have no problem with mentoring. But I was purposely, I try to advocate for my brother, make sure he was okay. I did not mention, I have to go back and mention my godson, Isaac, in Austin. He was born with Fleischer’s disease. And so he is wheelchair-bound. He has to wear splits on his arms and he was not even supposed to live past the age of [00:38:00] 18. He’s 19 years old now. And so he is still here, he is still thriving, he is doing all kinds of awesome things. His mom has fought single-handedly to make sure that people are aware of his disease, that they’re aware of the things that he’s able to do. And she is really just out there doing the thing for him. Very proud of her and very proud of him. And I’ve met so many people, wonderful people and seen so many lives of folks that have changed, so it’s my job. I don’t think we’re given things that we’re supposed to just take it all in and don’t receive, you don’t give out. So I think that’s my responsibility. All the things that I’ve learned, I need to make sure that I share with my community. And so I consider all of you all my community and anything that I know, I need to share that with you all. So that’s why I have no problem with being a mentor and sharing those things.

David Hirsch: We’re thrilled to have you. Thank you for being part of the group. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Allan Turner: No. I do want to thank you for allowing me to be able to speak in this podcast and kind of share a little bit of my story.

Allan Turner: Isaiah, we have a walk that we do every year. And his [00:39:00] team, he has an “I Can” team and it’s done on purpose. We call them “I Can.” Isaiah says, “I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me,” and his team is called “I Can.” And so I just want everyone to know the message that your child can. You can, as a parent, advocate for your child, or as anyone. Just that message that my son, Isaiah, gives everyone is just remember that you can. You can do all things.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. Thank you. So let’s give a special shout out to Ron Janowiczek with Special Strong in Colleyville, Texas for helping connect us.

Allan Turner: Yes. Yes. Thank you, Ron. Shout out to you, brother.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about your work or to contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Allan Turner: You can always reach me, of course, at my website. I’ll plug that again. The www.TurnerInsuranceGroup.net. And that’s a great way to be able to find out more about my company, more about the different products that we offer, and just a little bit more about me and what we do. And I try to update that page but I will be [00:40:00] updating with more of our advocacy work, because we also advocate as well. And so that’s going to be a great way to follow us and see what you can be doing and some of the examples of what we’re doing.

David Hirsch: Excellent. We’ll be sure to include that information in the show notes. Allan, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Allan is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax-deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Allan, thanks again.

Allan Turner: Thank you.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad [00:41:00] mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to David@21stCenturyDads. com.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Tom Couch: Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics, who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about [00:42:00] Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com.