313 – Paul Briggs of Falling Waters, WV Father of 38 Children, Six Biological & 32 Adopted Children From Five Countries

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics’ mission at HorizonTherapeutics. com.

Paul Briggs: To help facilitate them getting adopted, we were just involved with the agency, first one and then another, and then it just spread over time. We ended up doing the 10 adoptions from Ukraine, and things wound down there. We did the two from Bulgaria, and then we ended up doing our last 13 out of Ghana.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Paul Briggs, describing the makeup of his family, a family with 38 children: six biological and 32 adopted. Just feeding this family takes a superhuman effort. It’s an amazing story that we’ll hear on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David [00:01:00] Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

David Hirsch: The Special Fathers Network MasterMind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. We’re launching 10 new MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: So let’s hear now this voluminous conversation between Paul Briggs and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m [00:02:00] thrilled to be talking to Paul Briggs of Falling Waters, West Virginia, who works in the computer space and is father of 38, ranging in age from 8 to 44, as well as a grandfather of 23 grandchildren, ranging in age from 1 to 19 years old. Paul, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Paul Briggs: Thank you very much for having me. I’m glad to have this chance.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Jeanne, have been married for 48 years and are the proud parents of 38 children, ranging in age from 8 to 44, including 6 biological children and 32 who are adopted from 5 countries, including 13 from Ghana, 10 from Ukraine, 6 from Russia, 2 from Bulgaria, and 1 from Mexico. You’re also grandparents to 23 grandchildren, ranging in age from 1 to 19 years old. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Paul Briggs: I’m fortunate to have had a loving mother and father who were together their entire life till they passed. And I was born in Galveston, Texas where my [00:03:00] father was down doing research. I always marvel at this story. In the ’50s, he and my mom were just married in Michigan and they drove cross country, both of them never having left the area, drove from Michigan to Texas in ’55 to start this new life. I can’t think of that experience for the two of them, but it always tickles me to think about them that way.

Paul Briggs: But I grew up in Texas, and during the five years we lived there, I had a sister that was born as three years younger than myself. And at approximately five years of age, we moved the family to Illinois, where my father continued to do additional research and teaching at the University of Illinois there. We lived there for two years. I can remember a snowy morning, my mom and dad coming home with two bundles. And that were my brothers, my twin brothers. They were six years younger than me, three years than my sister. And the two years in Illinois there, from there, we moved up to Michigan, close to their families. And my dad continued his teaching and research work there. And we lived there for a couple of [00:04:00] years.

Paul Briggs: Again, just a very close family of four. Different holiday memories. Grandparents on my father’s side were there. My mother’s side had moved down to Florida. My grandfather was in the VA down in Florida there. And again, through that period was just a typical upbringing. Michigan snow, playing in the snow and just spending time with friends and family in the area. The big change came in when we moved to the Maryland area just before junior high school and that’s where I pretty much grew up from there on what was in the Maryland area.

David Hirsch: Thanks for sharing. It sounds like you were moving around a lot, and especially for somebody whose dad wasn’t in the military, right? Usually you hear dads moving around, families moving around because the dad’s getting reposted. And it sounds like your dad had a series of jobs, teaching jobs, as an educator. And you mentioned that your dad’s an educator, and I’m wondering, what was the focus of his research? What was he a specialist in?

Paul Briggs: He was a very unique individual. He could tell you the insides and outs of a mosquito gut like nobody else. Especially with malaria. And [00:05:00] actually when we moved to Maryland, he got hired by the Army to work at Walter Reed. So he was a civilian working for the Army. So he did all his pre deployments before he started working for the Army. But yeah, malaria and tropical medicines was his specialty.

David Hirsch: Thank you. And how would you characterize your relationship with your dad?

Paul Briggs: It wasn’t real close. It was probably typical for the Ozzie and Harriet and that type of time frame as such. He came from a northern background. His parents are very Victorian. Not a lot of display of emotions, but always, always knew I was loved. I was closer to my mom for the emotional support, but my dad was there for guidance and for teaching, etc. And in that way, we had a positive relationship, just not real close. And typically, in the high school years, we didn’t have a lot in common except tennis. If it wasn’t for tennis, we probably wouldn’t have spent a lot of time together. That was the tie that bound.

David Hirsch: Okay thanks for sharing. And when you think about your dad, are there any important takeaways, lessons learned that maybe you’ve tried to incorporate into your own life?

Paul Briggs: Yes, and in many ways growing up, [00:06:00] I said I don’t want to be like him, right? So I tried to not be that unemotional, etc. The older I get, the more I see the similarities and I’m reminded by others. But that’s when you start to appreciate those qualities you didn’t see growing up. My dad was a very unique character in that not only was his PhD in research in tropical medicines, he was a tremendous athlete. He was a tremendous artist, whether it was sculpting or painting. He was talented and gifted in so many ways, except for social skills. He just wasn’t comfortable around people, but give him anything else and he could do it.

David Hirsch: Okay, it sounds like the pendulum might swing this way as it relates to personal relationships.

Paul Briggs: Yes.

David Hirsch: And then it’s swinging this way.

Paul Briggs: My dad, again, he was fortunate. His parents were together, married together until the time they passed. But again, out of New England area, they were very Victorian. And my great-grandfather I had heard was an alcoholic who was not a pleasant person. And [00:07:00] so my grandfather was pretty determined to be a very nonviolent person. And with that, again, he just was a very stable person. The biggest thing with him is when he would come to visit, he would go for long walks. When I got old enough, I could go on walks with him. And that was some of my best memories with my grandfather.

David Hirsch: That was your paternal grandfather. How about your maternal grandfather?

Paul Briggs: A jokester. [David chuckles] As I mentioned, he was down in the VA and I only got to see him a couple of times. My uncle, I’m told, was just like him, and of course he was my favorite uncle because he was always kidding, always a lot of fun to be around. Learned to drive with him at a young age. My grandfather, though, he was a World War I vet in the Air Force. Again, when we went down there, he was just kidding around, but the thing he did for me was he used to be my pen pal, and he used to sign his letters, “You’re best friend.” So again, that didn’t have a lot of influence, but did have that core of influence, yes.

David Hirsch: Yeah, thanks for sharing. You’re very fortunate to have had both of your grandfathers [00:08:00] alive, right? Not everybody is blessed with that. Thank you for sharing. Any other men that have played an influential role in your life as a younger guy, maybe as a young adult for that matter?

Paul Briggs: Two I’d call out. One was the youth pastor had a heavy influence on my wife and I. We went to the youth there and he ended up being the one that married us. His approach to life was very influential and just a very influential person in my life. And the other person I have to mention is my wife’s father. My dad wasn’t that close and didn’t really spend a lot of time and develop parts of our relationship. Her dad was the opposite. He came from a big coal miner family in West Virginia. All of his brothers were educators in the school system, principals and teachers. Very gregarious but a very hard-nosed person. He took these little West Virginia schools to state football championships. He moved to Maryland and did the same thing for a school there. He had a way of getting to know and motivate people that was just unbelievable. So seeing him around my wife and her brothers, as well as just [00:09:00] interact with how he handled things was a very big influence for me.

David Hirsch: So did he motivate you at all in any way?

Paul Briggs: Oh, absolutely. This is an example. He built his own first home, dug the footers, did the whole thing with his brothers. As a teacher, he built their houses during the summertime, then they would move in, right? So sweat equity. But the one example, when we bought our first house, we were putting a deck on the back. When he came over to help, I had three daughters, young daughters at the time, and he brought over little hammers for each one of them so each one of them could be involved in this process. And so he just had a way of including. When my wife was growing up, she got bazooka bubble gum when they weeded the brick walkway. He just had a way of having fun with kids.

David Hirsch: Yeah. He sounds like an amazing human being. Thank you again for sharing. And what a great role model in your father-in-law. My recollection was you went to the University of Maryland, you took a degree in Resource Management. And where did you see your career taking you?

Paul Briggs: At the time I was, I saw, following the park naturalist. I love trees, I love the woods, I love being outdoors that way. And I wanted to work that [00:10:00] way. And again, I was fortunate to have a chance to start my career within the park systems. I found, not too far along, that it was a very political system, and it was better as a hobby than a career.

David Hirsch: Where did your career take you from there?

Paul Briggs: A place I never would have expected, but I actually ended up working for IBM. Going from the trees to the world’s biggest computer company was quite a transition. Didn’t expect that, didn’t see that coming. But God provided for me and my family through that career. So I got into IT and that’s been my way of providing since.

David Hirsch: Yeah. In our family, we like IBM. Our youngest of our five children has been a consultant with IBM. She’s on the international team. And mostly in Europe. She was on the Heineken account most recently, so she’s been spending like months and months at a time in Amsterdam and she loves it, right? Not because she enjoys drinking Heineken beer, but just the opportunity to live in Europe on the weekends, go here, there, and everywhere. We’re Big Blue. Go Blue there.

Paul Briggs: Yeah, it’s not exactly your father’s IBM. It’s changed dramatically since [David chuckles] the original company. But my [00:11:00] funny story, when I got my first paycheck and I read it, I didn’t know who it was from. It said “International Business Machines.” I didn’t know what IBM stood for.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thank you for sharing. Remind me, how did you and Jeanne meet?

Paul Briggs: I was the President of my Methodist Youth Fellowship group, she was the president of hers. And in the summer times, our Methodist youth conference had a youth assembly. They brought these youth leaders to a college campus for training seminars. And so we met during the June months at a college campus, and from the very first day we met that June 21st, 1971, we’ve been together ever since.

David Hirsch: Yeah. You took a little bit more away from your youth Methodist experience than the average person then.

Paul Briggs: Agreed.

David Hirsch: So let’s switch gears and talk about special needs first on a personal level and then beyond. Before you became parents, did either of you have any experience in the world of disability or special needs?

Paul Briggs: No experience. I would say my wife had a very open heart to the underdog and so [00:12:00] she was predisposed, but not experienced.

David Hirsch: Gotcha. I don’t know exactly how to go about talking about this very large family that you have, so we’re gonna do this sort of categorically, and we’ll see how this works. My recollection is that you have six biological children, so if you can just give us the origin story for you becoming parents and how that evolved.

Paul Briggs: Sure. We reference our six bios when we talk about all of our children. However, one was a miscarriage. So of those six, only five are living. So we had three girls ages five, three, and one. And then we had the miscarriage. We ended up getting into adoption at that time. And we adopted Abraham, who was a blind young man from Mexico. And following that, we ended up having, very quickly had a daughter, had our fourth biological child. And then a couple of years later, we had our first son, our fifth biological child. So we have four girls and one boy in our biological family now, and [00:13:00] they were pretty much raised with Abraham. So that family of six is what we raised up until 20 years ago.

David Hirsch: Okay. So if I can paraphrase what you’ve said, you had five biological children plus one miscarriage, and then Abraham was adopted in the middle of your biological children.

Paul Briggs: That’s correct.

David Hirsch: And then there was a period of time that went by where there were no new biological children and no adoptions.

Paul Briggs: That’s correct.

David Hirsch: How many years went by before that?

Paul Briggs: Oh, my wife is better at these numbers than myself here. But Ben was the last bio child. It was probably about 15 years after that. Ben was probably about 13 or 14 as I think now, when we started into the international adoptions.

David Hirsch: Okay. So let’s talk about that. You decided to adopt. What was the thought process? You already have a relatively large family by most people’s standards, relatively large family, six children, and the youngest would have been 13, like you said. What were you and Jeanne thinking about? What was the motive? What motivated you to think about [00:14:00] international adoption?

Paul Briggs: Again, it’s another God thing. My wife and I had just recently reconnected with our college best friends, the maid of honor and a best friend of mine. And so we came across their paths, met up with them, and they invited us to go visit them at a cabin they had just purchased at the local lake about two hours away. And just before we were to go there, the neighbor of my wife’s parents who had previously adopted from Russia told us about their adoption agency looking for host families. This agency brought kids from Russia to the States for a few weeks to socialize them and to see if there were adoptive families for these kids. The difference here was that these were the leftovers. So after that trip was over, there were kids that did not get adopted.

David Hirsch: As you’re saying, they weren’t matched.

Paul Briggs: They were not matched. There was nobody that selected them. And so one of them was a boy who had deformed arms from his elbows down. [00:15:00] One of them was a boy who had severe scoliosis. His spine came down, turned 123 degrees. He was very undersized. And the others were a couple of sisters, nine and seven. They were just older. And so when they said that nobody wanted them, it just tugged at both our hearts at the same time. And so we wanted to find more information out. We did. And we came home to the family and talked to them, our kids, about adopting these kids. And so when we ended up contacting the agency back, we told them we want all of them.

David Hirsch: Oh my God.

Paul Briggs: And so all four. And they cautioned us, saying that the boy with the deformed arms needed to be in a smaller environment because he needed to get more attention, specialized attention. But the two sisters and the other boy, fine.

Paul Briggs: And so that started us down. We didn’t go looking. We had done foster care in the past and were open to adopting, but really got disillusioned with the foster care system. But loved the kids, didn’t like the system. We weren’t [00:16:00] looking to adopt, but when we got that invitation with our college friends, God gave us a fork in the road. Would you like to go the path of empty nest and you can have these comforts in your life, or do you want to reinvest? So we had the option, it was our choice.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it’s the proverbial fork in the road. That’s what I heard you saying This is the traditional path, a little bit more ease and comfort if you will. And then it sounded like you really enjoyed being parents, right? You wouldn’t do this if you didn’t have a positive parenting experience. So the first four adoptions, outside of Abraham who was adopted much earlier, came from Russia. And I know that you have two more adopted children from Russia. Were they next in order or what was the next step?

Paul Briggs: So actually all of our adoptions followed a pattern. We did all in a country So as we were doing our last adoptions, the adoption climate was closing in that country. So of the four, actually the initial three from Russia, long story but the two [00:17:00] sisters at the last minute and an adult turned 18, he wouldn’t sign the papers. We traveled there saying we’re going to do this. All right. We got there and he ran and hid in Chechnya. And so our driver/bodyguard offered to go find the guy, drag him back.

Paul Briggs: Anyhow, again, God just did so many things to orchestrate things that we ended up staying longer than we expected and we ended up getting kids that we didn’t even know about. But yes, we separately had two other adoptions from Russia. One was a 14 month old girl, only weighed 13 pounds. She was diagnosed with hip dysplasia with x-rays and all that. Came home. Her hips are fine. What she had was TB. And then our last daughter has FAS and she was just a special needs girl. But yeah, so Russia we did the six and then we transitioned over to Ukraine. Again, not looking to continue adopting, but the agency we work with knew our heart and they would just share pictures and say, can you help us find families?

Paul Briggs: And outside of the 38 kids we adopted, we were given other names and we networked. And my wife has a [00:18:00] beautiful medical network and she would get medicals read, reviewed. We would provide these backgrounds on these kids to help facilitate them getting adopted. So we were just involved with the agency, first one and then another. And then it just spread over time. So we ended up doing the 10 adoptions from Ukraine and things wound down there. We did the two from Bulgaria. And then we ended up doing our last 13 out of Ghana.

David Hirsch: Are you done?

Paul Briggs: We never say done. But I will say that we have had the opportunity that we have passed on. I’ve also had close calls where I thought that we might, this might be right. But yeah, I believe at this stage, it would take a very unique set of circumstances for us to continue.

David Hirsch: Yeah it’s amazing, right? I’m just trying to process everything that you’re talking about, Paul. And what’s most impressive just that I can say it like a 30,000 foot level, is that not only that you’ve opened your home but you opened your hearts to each of these children, right? And but for that experience who’s to say what their destiny might have been. And I think that’s the most [00:19:00] remarkable thing about what you and Jeanne have been doing.

David Hirsch: So you’ve already made reference to some of the specifics, the special needs that these children have. And I’m wondering, it’s one thing to adopt. And thank God that there are people who foster care, that’s a solution for some. Others adopt, that’s a solution for others. And it seems very intimidating for the average person to open up their home, open up their hearts to one or more individuals. And you didn’t seem to flinch with regard to the fact that they had additional needs. You made reference to the fact that there were deformed arms, there was a severe scoliosis and some other situations. And I’m wondering where did the confidence come from? Where did the “we can handle this” come from?

Paul Briggs: It’s the person my wife was created to be, for one. She’s a rebel by nature. And so if you’re telling me I can’t do it, I’m going to do it. A lot of the kids that we adopted, all of them were special needs of some sort. In the early [00:20:00] years, they were more medical special needs. In the later years, they were more age and sibling group kind of special needs. But they were all kids nobody wanted or were going to get adopted typically. So that was the initial intrigue, right?

Paul Briggs: Secondly is going to get processed in many cases because of our age, because of the number of our kids, we should not have been able to adopt. It should have been shut down, but God kept opening doors. And so again we didn’t keep looking, but whenever we felt this was right and we felt God calling us, we went into it headfirst. We had many roadblocks. Many times it would have been easy to say, no, we didn’t hear right. But so many things happened to confirm that, yeah, every one of the adoptions was a challenge, but a gift.

Paul Briggs: And as much as we know these were life-saving in many situations, and life-changing in all, it’s also life-changing to my wife and I. And I gotta say, life-changing in many positive ways, but some not as positive as [00:21:00] well. That it’s just part of life.

David Hirsch: Yeah, let’s not focus on the negative, but what have been some of the challenges?

Paul Briggs: The easy ones are the medical ones. We did over 200 surgeries in the first I don’t know how many years it was, but everything from open heart to the backs to cross-eyeds, to ear surgeries, to you name it. There weren’t many body parts that we weren’t in the operating room or doctors with. Some of the biggest gifts were the orthopedics. My daughter with, it wasn’t TB, it was polio. So the polio that she has in her left leg. My son who had this arthrogryposis and the webbing going on. He didn’t stand up straight until he was like, I don’t know, six or seven years old. He didn’t walk until then. And to see them that way, that was the biggest gift of all is to see these kids getting closer to a normal life.

Paul Briggs: As far as the ongoing, most of ours were physical in nature. We have some that are emotional, and the autism spectrum we have a couple of children with. [00:22:00] Cleft palates several with, and then the fetal alcohol. So there’s a little bit of, like I say, of the emotional and of the physical all blended in.

David Hirsch: That’s amazing. So I’ve got some really basic questions that I’m sure that most of our listeners would have, too. It’s holy moly. This is a large mass of humanity living under the same roof. How do you handle meals? Something as basic as meals?

Paul Briggs: The first thing to understand is my wife is not a short order cook, alright? So we make one thing and we make a lot of it. You have that honeymoon period to come home, right? Our first disagreement, our first pushback comes around food. And for a while it was green beans. They wouldn’t eat their green beans, right? So the test of wills and they don’t get up from the table till the green beans are gone, right? But we were always secretly inside happy that they felt comfortable enough now to be real to us, not just on their best behavior.

Paul Briggs: But meals are pretty much… The most we had living at home at one time was 27. Right now we’re down to 15. And we eat three meals a day together. I go to [00:23:00] work, but otherwise the meals are the same times and everybody’s there for the meals at home. So that’s the common thread. And again, it’s just mass quantity. My wife has cooked on commercial pots and pans and we did the kitchen, have two stoves. We have a refrigerator, but then in our garage, we have four refrigerators and three freezers. So it’s just having a lot.

David Hirsch: Yeah. If they were all the same gender, I would say that you’re like house parents to like a fraternity or sorority. But it’s a blended situation. So it’s not quite that. But you actually have more people living under your roof at sometimes than like a fraternity or sorority might. So it’s remarkable.

David Hirsch: I’m thinking of other basic things like laundry. There must be laundry being done 24/7, right? With all these people living there. How do you handle that?

Paul Briggs: My kids always laugh because when we did a short piece for Inside Edition, part of the filming had me showing them our laundry and actually putting clothes in the washing machine. And they laugh because, “Dad, you never do [00:24:00] laundry!” And here, that’s one of the focal points of this five minute segment. But yeah.

Paul Briggs: And the other program that was very prevalent years back was the TLC show about, what, 13 and Counting, 15 and Counting, whatever. And they had this huge laundry room, right? Two of them with five sets of washer/dryers and all this stuff, right? Basically, we have two sets of washers and dryers. We have a routine, but yeah, we do probably about five or six loads daily. And they come down every day, they get washed every day, they get folded and put away every day.

David Hirsch: Okay. I imagine there’s some hand-me-downs too, right? Because the older kids are growing, outgrowing their clothing, and you’re able to reuse them better than the average family might be able to.

Paul Briggs: We have a lot of donations, and we tell people, yeah, bring it off, because we’ll find somebody. If we don’t, then we’ll donate it, right? But yes, everything, things wear out. And so with our bio kids, they never wore out. They outgrew them, right?

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But [00:25:00] first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So another thought that comes to mind has to do with driver’s ed. And I’m wondering which one of the two of you is the primary driver’s ed parent?

Paul Briggs: My wife has done zero. [David laughing] I think I’m on number fourteen.

David Hirsch: Okay. That’s pretty much the same way in our family.

Paul Briggs: Yeah.

David Hirsch: My wife’s like, “You know, I spend so much time in the car with these kids, you can teach them how to drive,” right? And she gets a little anxious, right? She’s looking for the pedal under her foot. She’s doing this to the dashboard. And that’s not a healthy environment for a young person that’s learning how to [00:26:00] drive. So I could relate to that.

David Hirsch: So I’m thinking about family vacations. And I’m wondering, if you’re able to, what’s the strategy? Can you get everybody packed up for spring break and go do something? Do you divide and conquer? What is it that you’ve been able to do to create these outside-the-family, outside-the-home experiences?

Paul Briggs: As you would imagine, it’s morphed over the years. When we first had six and then eight and 12, we could go places easier. We can even go out to McDonald’s and afford it. It was something that we could do little trips and experiences. Sometimes my work would send me someplace and the family would go along, right? So we would do out-of-home weekends and yes, we would still do a beach vacation. Our favorite place is the Outer Banks in North Carolina. We go away from most of the college kids, the crowds. We go up to the family area and have a blast.

Paul Briggs: As our families grew, we needed a bigger house. It became more expensive. So instead of every year, it was every second or third year. Now that we have kids working, all right, we’re going on family vacation. Guess what? You get to pay for your room. Now we [00:27:00] have contributors to the family vacation [laughing] and we go there and so mom and dad might buy dinner this night and next night it’s this group of three or four kids and it’s wonderful because they don’t mind. I mean they’ll sputter. There’s only a couple misers that [laughing] really protest quietly. But it’s a ball to get away this way.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thank you for sharing.

Paul Briggs: As a matter of fact, we just booked a house for in May, and we’re going in the opposite direction now. Our number, our kids are declining. But now some of our kids and their families are coming. So the numbers are staying the same, but it’s not all our kids. And now it’s our adult kids and grandchildren that are filling up the house these days. And that’s different dynamics, but again, just different experiences.

David Hirsch: You’re begging another question, which has to do with number of bedrooms, number of beds. I can only envision there’s a lot of bunk rooms, right? That’s what we did in the fraternity, right? We had a dorm and there’s a lot of bunk beds. How do you handle the living arrangements [00:28:00] on an ordinary basis, a day-to-day basis with such a large family? I know it’s not at its peak today with only 15 at home but you had mentioned at one point there were 27.

Paul Briggs: That’s a great question. We have expanded the house three times with additions. One was the kitchen, the other was a downstairs area. But the biggest one was a two-level space where the upstairs turned into the girls dorm. Okay. It’s got a very large bathroom and all the girls stayed in that dorm.

Paul Briggs: And we had a pretty, pretty strict separation of boys and girls. So the other three bedrooms were all the boy bedrooms with the hall bath. And the girls were all in this one room and yes, there are multiple bunk sets in that room. It’s thinned out. Again, five in there, so it’s a lot smaller, but yeah, there were multiple sets of bunks.

Paul Briggs: And the thing that I always tell people is most of these kids come with all their worldly possessions would fit in a pillowcase or under the bed. So for them to come and get their own bed, their own dresser, closet space, their own clothes [00:29:00] that they can choose. They don’t mind sharing that. Matter of fact, not having other kids around is more abnormal for them. So walking into a space with multiple children was normal.

David Hirsch: Yeah, thanks for sharing. I’m thinking about something really important now, and it has to do with schooling. And I’m wondering, are you homeschoolers? Do some of the kids go to public schools? Are there special needs programs? What does that look like?

Paul Briggs: We’re homeschoolers. Our bio kids, I mentioned, third grade, first grade, and kindergarten, we pulled our kids out and started homeschooling. So we’ve been homeschooling for close to 40 years now. It’s been a huge blessing. And while it really fit the needs, individual needs of our bio kids, it’s also fit the needs of our adopted kids who came from experiences where education was not important.

Paul Briggs: For us to be able to adapt our program to them was very good. So we tried some of the special needs programs. The school for the blind; did not have good results with that. We did some work where one of our children went to the public school [00:30:00] to be mainstreamed there. Not mainstreamed, that she was in the special needs class and that was a positive experience. But by and large, again we’ve only done homeschooling and recommend it strongly.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Because I know how important education is. You’ve already emphasized that. And have some of the kids, the older ones, attended college now?

Paul Briggs: Yes. From our first group of bio kids, our oldest two were top of their class and all the sumo whatevers, as such. My other daughter wasn’t interested in college. She’s now a medical tech. My son, he got his degree. He’s a police officer. So that’s in the bio group. And the adaptive group, college has been available to all of them. There’s only three of them that have pursued it. One’s getting ready to get his degree, to graduate. The other one didn’t stay with it and now two others are getting ready to start. So again, it’s there, but most of them are not. It’s just the thing that we require in our family, before they go to get a job as such, at high school age, they have to get their GED. You get your GED and your license, then you can [00:31:00] go leave and go work.

David Hirsch: Yeah, thanks for sharing. I know that relative to the experience that they would have had back in their home country this is like night and day, right? And it sounds like you’ve tried to meet each of them where they are, right? To identify what their aptitude is. And try to make sure that they’re getting the right resources. And it’s difficult for me to, again, wrap my mind around what it is that you’ve been able to accomplish. But I’m wondering if there’s anything else that comes to mind when you think about the parenting experience that you’ve had – bio children, adopted children – that comes to mind.

Paul Briggs: Oh, probably a couple of thoughts. One is kids are kids, adopted or bio. And the issues we have dealt with parenting have largely been the same. This hasn’t been an angelic story, right? We have dealt with the same heartache and challenges that parents face today. It’s just parenting. So one thing you don’t think of as much when you’re going [00:32:00] through it but outside of the bonding and the emotional part and the education part, the social adjustments are significant as well.

Paul Briggs: And I’ll give you an example. Many of these kids come from countries where they don’t trust law enforcement. Police are people who take advantage of them. And so they come into our country and our family, our world, having a very distrusting feel for law enforcement. So sometimes we have to proactively break that down and teach them how to trust and to accept that authority and that role of somebody. So that’s just one example about the social aspects of bringing other people from other countries into where we are and what they’ve experienced.

Paul Briggs: Now, I would say, again, people who are adopting today, again, I would caution very much about being prepared for so many things that come up that you can’t even plan for. So a lot of the things, as we went through this, people were saying, “Are you crazy?” Just the numbers that we kept going. And a lot of things they were warning about have [00:33:00] happened. So I can’t say that we weren’t warned, but the underlying issue for us is God. If we didn’t have that motivation, then we would have severe second doubts and thoughts with everything we’ve faced. But knowing what we know, right? That’s what you can’t change. And that’s the strength that you deal with those things that come up. Because whether it’s bio, whether it’s adopted, they’re your kids.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Another question that I think I mentioned to you is I’m a financial advisor. So I’m always thinking about the cost of things and budgeting and all that. And I’m wondering, did you win the lottery? Did you have a trust fund? How have you dealt with the responsibilities? And again, I’m being a little bit narrow minded, the financial responsibilities that go along with being a parent to not just your six bio kids, but the other 30-some adopted kids.

Paul Briggs: Yeah, that’s an excellent element to consider. And again, it’s a biblical basis. What God starts, He’ll finish. [00:34:00] And we’ve lived a life of rarely in excess, but always enough. And we’ve had some of those George Mueller moments where, “Where is this going to come from?” But this has been a blessing that our kids have been able to see God be real. Because when that’s the only way something is going to happen financially… I can’t tell you how many awards I’ve won unexpectedly at work. Or about a bonus that was far more than expected or came early. Or the different ways that we have been provided for. And so again, it’s a God story many times over our kids got to witness and walk through.

Paul Briggs: Financially, it’s been a single income. My wife hasn’t worked. And only one time did I take a second job at my IT career. I went to take a job at Lowe’s working in the plumbing department to make some extra money for a few months on adoption. [laughing] That was a fun experience. It really was. But we’ve had to budget. And we have not been able to save, but it’s been there. And most recently, as I’m coming of retirement age, [00:35:00] things have happened to help get us prepared for that in a way that we can afford as such. So again, it hasn’t been easy and yes it’s probably like in life. Money is one of the biggest stress factors, but it’s worked out.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I appreciate your transparency and I love the phrase that you use: rarely in excess, but always enough. I think that’s a really important message. And it’s obvious to me that you and Jeanne are deeply spiritual individuals and you’ll trust, right? You have faith, right? And you can’t see faith, right? You just have to be open-minded and say we’re just going to follow the call that we’ve been on. And you’re not blind to some of the challenges. I was thinking, historically people would have large families because they own farms and they needed hands to work on the farm. And you do live out in the country, right? But you don’t have a farm, right?

Paul Briggs: No, we have two acres, but no, it’s not a farm. We do have chores. [00:36:00] I will tell you this, we have a chore chart that from cleaning dog poops to doing laundry to washing dishes, drying dishes. They start when they’re five or six, emptying the trash cans in the house and they move all the way up to the adult chores, right? But yeah, it’s important to learn that work ethic. And hey, a little tidbit: I found that my kids who drive the lawnmower learn how to drive cars faster than the ones who never set foot on the mower.

David Hirsch: Did you say faster, or did you mean earlier?

Paul Briggs: Earlier. Quicker. [both laughing] How about that?

David Hirsch: Quicker, okay. I’m wondering if there’s any advice beyond what you’ve already shared that you might be able to share with a family with a more typical number of children raising kids with special needs or kids that are atypical and typical.

Paul Briggs: Have a good support system. You don’t need a lot. You just need one. You got to have somebody in your life that can help you deal with your stresses because they are going to be there. And then just understand that one day isn’t the whole [00:37:00] picture. One bad incident doesn’t make you a bad person. Life is a journey and kids are worth it.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I love your hearts. Thank you for sharing. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Paul Briggs: No, I appreciate the time. We’ve only done a few of these types of programs. And we always do it to promote adoption or to promote father, to promote something that we believe strongly in. So thank you for the opportunity.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about the work you’re doing and how you’ve gotten all this accomplished, what’s the best way to contact you?

Paul Briggs: Probably just a personal email would be fine. And I can share that with you.

David Hirsch: Okay. I’d be more than happy to include your email in the show notes so anybody who wants to reach out or has some questions, they would have the opportunity to communicate with you.

Paul Briggs: And for some visual background, they can look at that Inside Edition on YouTube. Family 38, West Virginia. It’ll come up and that’ll give them about a five or seven minute video insight of our family.

Paul Briggs: [Audio excerpt from Inside Edition]

Paul Briggs: My name is Jeanne Briggs.

Paul Briggs: My name is Paul Briggs and we have 38 children.

Paul Briggs: We have six biological children [00:38:00] and 32 adopted children.

Paul Briggs: [End of audio excerpt from Inside Edition]

David Hirsch: I’ll definitely include that because I remember watching that. And I watched it again because I’m like, I must’ve been missing something here. And I wasn’t. And that’s a beautiful story, a well-told story. Paul, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Paul is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax-deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Paul, thanks again.

Paul Briggs: Thank you very much. Had a great time.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to [00:39:00] dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to David@21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Tom Couch: Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics, who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with [00:40:00] rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com.