314 – Mastermind Group Monday with John Shouse of Nashville, TN

Transcript:

John Shouse: [00:00:00] This is an investment in becoming a better father, becoming a better spouse and becoming a better man. And if that’s not worth at least $50, even in a tight budget, I don’t know what is.

David Hirsch: Hi. I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, now with more than 300 weekly episodes. Every Friday since 2018, we’ve been shining a bright light on the positive and uplifting aspects of raising children with disabilities and inspiring dads, stepdads, granddads, and father figures to be more present physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

David Hirsch: Welcome to the new Special Fathers Network MasterMind Group Monday Podcast. I’ll be interviewing MasterMind group dads who will reflect on the positive impact the MasterMind group experience has had on them and the wellbeing of their families. As a reminder, the SFN MasterMind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing [00:01:00] heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. We’re launching 10 new SFN MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local SFN MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads. org. Happy listening.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with my friend, John Shouse of Franklin, Tennessee, industrial control sales engineer, father of three adult children, including one with autism. John, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview with the MasterMind Group Monday interview for the Special Fathers Network.

John Shouse: Delighted to be here.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Janet, have been married for 40 years and are the proud parents of three children: Emma, 35; and 28 year old twins, Brendan and Evan, who is autistic.

David Hirsch: Let’s start with some background. You’ve been involved with the Special Fathers Network for more than five years. Your [00:02:00] Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast episode number 52 aired back in April of 2019. For the past two years, you’ve been involved with the Tuesday night SFN MasterMind group and you’ve attended two in-person SFN MasterMind Group weekend retreats: the one in St. Louis and the last one in Chicago. Would you please, for the listeners, provide a brief overview of what’s going on with the Shouse family?

John Shouse: Sure. It’s been a busy time for us. My wife, Janet, and I, as you said, have been married 40 years. Our daughter, Emma, who works in the disability field – she works for the state of Tennessee for our state council, Tennessee Council on Developmental Disabilities – she had her first child this past year. And Evan’s twin brother Brendan and his wife Kyla actually had their first child this past year. So we have two new grandparents and are loving that role. Somebody said if I knew how much fun grandkids were, I would have had them first.

David Hirsch: That’s exactly what my mom used to say. Yep.

John Shouse: But I grew up in Missouri. [00:03:00] Met Janet at the University of Missouri, where she was going for journalism school and followed her home. She worked at the Tennessean for years as an editor. That’s our morning newspaper here. But as newspapers have cut editorial staffs she ended up without a job back around 2009 and went to work for Vanderbilt, for the University Center for Excellence on Developmental Disabilities, the UCEDD at Vanderbilt, which is called the Vanderbilt Kennedy Center. And she works on a number of projects, but the one that takes up the most of her time and she’s most passionate about is in improving healthcare outcomes for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. So she’s a go-to person that a lot of folks in this area call and talk to for perspective on how best to care for their kids and young adults with developmental disabilities.

John Shouse: I’m an engineer. I work in the field of industrial automation for a company called Link [00:04:00] Systems. We provide safety controls and automation for the metal forming industry.

John Shouse: Evan is 28 as you said. He was diagnosed right around his second birthday and we got involved in the advocacy community right out of the gate. I got involved with our local autism group, which then was called the Autism Society of Middle Tennessee. Now it’s just Autism Tennessee. Ended up on their board very quickly and became president of that for a number of years. I was actually on their board in some capacity for around 11 years, I think. I’ve been on the board, including president of the ARC Tennessee, our statewide ARC. And was on the National Board of the Autism Society of America for about four and a half or five years.

John Shouse: I write a blog. I really enjoy reminiscing about times growing up and about various things that are going on in my life. It’s at theverystuff.com. I haven’t been [00:05:00] as diligent over the last year or so about posting new things, but I have some things in the can that I hope to get posted soon. That’s some place that people can check out my writing. I would love to have visitors there.

John Shouse: And I tend to do trainings and that sort of thing for workshops and do board trainings for various chapters of the ARC from time to time. I have one scheduled coming up next month in New Mexico. I’m really looking forward to that. I’ve never spent any time in New Mexico, so that’s gonna be exciting. And often my presentations at conferences do deal with dads and the experiences that fathers have in learning to be better dads for kids with disabilities. It’s just a real passion.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it’s really obvious from my perspective that it’s not just the typical work- family balance that you’ve been striking, but you somehow found the bandwidth to get involved. And not just in one or two ways, but in so many different ways over such a long period of time. And it’s really a blessing, right? Maybe it’s part [00:06:00] therapy for you too.

John Shouse: It definitely is part therapy. In fact, I’d say a big part therapy. It helps keep me balanced. I’m very fortunate that I work for a small company. The primary owner of the company has a grandson on the autism spectrum, who’s about Evan’s age. In fact, they went to the same school. And that helps give him, the owner of our company who’s our CEO, gives him the perspective of understanding the work that I like to do in the non profit world, and I think they give me a little bit of grace for that.

David Hirsch: That is a blessing. So I’m curious to know, what attracted you to get involved with the Special Fathers Network early on?

John Shouse: Actually I really was not familiar with the Special Fathers Network until I met you. You’d come to Nashville on a trip. I believe your son was in grad school at Vanderbilt, if I remember correctly. And I’d gotten a call from the then executive director for Autism Tennessee, I think he’d made contact and [00:07:00] went to meet some dads, and I came over and we sat and chatted for, oh gosh, I don’t know, an hour and a half.

John Shouse: I was just really intrigued by the story that you told about the organization. We had a dad’s group here that met rather informally on a monthly basis in person. We would get together and either go to a sports bar or a local restaurant and just talk. We didn’t have a real structure or program per se, but just guys that kind of wanted to get together. So that, paired with the experience that I’d had of doing some Dad’s thing at conferences, it just seemed like a natural fit. And I was really excited to be invited by you to participate in doing one of the podcast episodes. And then the more I learned about the network, the more attractive it seemed.

David Hirsch: Yeah, we’re thrilled to have you. And do you remember learning about the MasterMind group before you joined? Do you remember what your perspective was about that?

John Shouse: I did. The very first MasterMind retreat that you guys had was actually here in [00:08:00] Nashville, and you had invited me to come to a cocktail evening that the guys were having. And my original thought that it was more like a board of directors for your organization. And when I got there that evening and heard a little more about it, including standing at the bar and talking to, among others, I talked to Ian Todd, who’s in the MasterMind group number one, and he gave me a little more perspective on what it was. So I really didn’t understand what it was until then. And then I got a little bit of a perspective on it and when the opportunity came around as you guys were beginning to form the second MasterMind group, I jumped at the chance.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for jogging my memory about how that all transpired. Do you remember what it was like attending your first couple meetings just to put it in perspective?

John Shouse: I tend to be pretty outgoing and I’m usually not reticent to jump in and share what’s going on in our lives. But this was a bunch of guys that I’d never really met before. So [00:09:00] you dip the toe in the water and you take your time. It felt good, but at the same time we hadn’t built any relationships yet I guess is what I’m trying to say. So it wasn’t that it was stilted or anything like that, but it was not as deep and meaningful as it’s become in the ensuing months and years.

David Hirsch: Yeah. If I can paraphrase what you’ve said, and I’ve witnessed this with the existing MasterMind groups, initially everybody’s in the same boat, right? There’s a little uncertainty. No relationships. And you have to walk before you can run. And then I think as the weeks and maybe months go by, it becomes a little bit more natural just to open up and share. And what has attending the weekly meetings, MasterMind group meetings, meant to you?

John Shouse: Gosh, it’s meant so much. It’s great to have a bunch of guys who understand a little bit about what your life is like. As we’re fond of saying, I haven’t walked a mile in your shoes, but I shop in your shoe store. I don’t live under [00:10:00] your roof, but I’ve eaten in your kitchen. That sort of thing.

John Shouse: We come with different life experience, different professions, different ages, kids with different disabilities across different age ranges, marriages of different lengths. But there’s a commonality that comes from parenting a child with a disability that you just don’t get the perspective out in the world at large when you’re dealing with your day to day friends, your work friends.

John Shouse: The guys in this group understand some of the challenges that you’re going through and that’s just an incredible blessing to be able to be open and real and honest and know that whatever you say, they’re going to hear it. I might be reticent to share with somebody else about frustrations that I’m having either with my spouse or with a situation with caregiving for our kids, because I don’t want to come across as being a [00:11:00] complainer or whatever. But with these guys, they get it.

David Hirsch: As part of the Special Fathers Network MasterMind Group experience, we read and discuss six books a year and then do a Zoom call with the author. Which has been your favorite book or author for that matter?

John Shouse: Oh gosh, I’m a reader. I love to read. One of the ways I gauge my own mental health is how long has it been since I’ve been to the bookstore. To me, the books have been one of the greatest parts, and to your credit, you guys have picked out some really good books.

John Shouse: Favorite book, I am gonna say, is View from the Top by Aaron Walker, who was a pioneer of putting together the MasterMind concept. He’s a local Nashville guy. I felt like I got a lot out of that book. He talks in there in great length about living a life of significance. His story is very interesting. He didn’t have a lot of formal education and went to work in a pawn shop at a very early age. Ended up selling that by the time he was, what 27, I think?

David Hirsch: And that’s P-A-W-N just [00:12:00] for people’s listening.

John Shouse: Thank you. But he sold the business at age 27 and ostensibly made enough money to retire. And after a fairly short time, realized that it was too early to retire. He still had things to accomplish, good work to do, and he’s continued on. Started a number of successful businesses. But the thing that really resonated with me was his deep desire to give back. To lead a life of significance, a life that he could be proud of and that he knew that his dad would have been proud of.

John Shouse: They talk in his organization about having core values of relationships matter. Always tell the truth and have personal integrity. Don’t make excuses and that everything’s figureoutable. That’s one that was one of their core values. And particularly when you have a group of men or a group of people that you can rely on and trust and be open and honest and vulnerable with, you can get through the tough stuff in your life and you can give perspective to other guys. [00:13:00] So reading that book I think was clearly my favorite. We’ve had some really good books, but that was the one that meant the most to me.

David Hirsch: Thanks for sharing. At the heart of the Special Fathers Network MasterMind Group experience are what we call Dad in the Middle, where two dads per meeting share challenges they’re wrestling with. What have those Dad in the Middle segments meant to you, and why are they important?

John Shouse: I view those as the core of the meeting. Our meetings are great, and we start off with good news – what’s something good that’s happened, a win for the week. So that’s always nice to kick off with a positive thing. And then we do talk about the book we’re reading. And then we move into maybe something that’s potentially a little heavier, and we have either one or two dads that talk about something that sometimes could be pretty tough. As I said, pretty heavy. And just to be able to talk and get the words out there.

John Shouse: And one of the things that we’re going through now, Janet and I, that I shared in the meeting this week, was how a lot of the systems that we have in place to support Evan are just [00:14:00] not functioning in peak efficiency. Evan lives in an apartment with 24/7 support, theoretically. And we’ve had a lot of trouble with staff through the agency that we’re working through. Now is a hard time for these agencies to be finding good, reliable staffing. How would you feel if you required assistance from somebody else to meet your most basic daily needs – to meal prep, to showering and toileting and all those sorts of things – and you didn’t know who was going to be there to help you the next morning? So it’s hard on Evan. And when it’s hard on Evan, it’s hard on us.

John Shouse: So I shared that this week and just talked in a very raw fashion about what a difficult time it’s been. And to have these other guys not try to solve that problem, but to weigh in with their ideas, their perspective and remind me that hey, I’m not doing anything wrong. You’re a good dad and to have perspective is invaluable.

John Shouse: I know Nathan Warner, who’s [00:15:00] part of our group, has said that perspective is the one thing you can’t give for yourself. You can sit and try to figure things out, you can strategize or whatever, but you can’t give yourself outside perspective. So I really value the Dad in the Middle time of our meetings.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well-spoken. Thank you. Each fall, the 21st Century Dads Foundation hosts its annual SFN MasterMind Group Weekend Retreat. What’s been your favorite MasterMind Group Retreat experience and why?

John Shouse: Oh gosh, we’ve had so many good times. The evening at Topgolf was great. Just standing around in a very relaxed atmosphere, being able to talk more relaxed with these guys and learn a little bit more about their lives. I loved doing that. The experience this past year in Chicago, where Tom Dreesen came in and talked to us, that was really terrific.

John Shouse: But if I had to pick one moment, it was my first MasterMind retreat in St. Louis. Matt Rehbein, who also lives here in the Nashville area, and I had driven up. We got there a little early and we were all [00:16:00] sitting around down in the basement of the hotel. We had an area where we were sharing pizza and just informal time together. And Ian came in, Ian Todd from Baltimore. And Jeff from South Carolina was already there. And Ian came in and when Ian and Jeff saw each other, they’re both in the MasterMind One group. But when they saw each other, they went up and they gave each other just a big, deep, very real hug. And you could tell there was a real relationship there that meant a lot to both of those guys. And it really struck me, and I thought, I want some of that.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it was palpable. I remember that moment as well. It’s like a bonding experience, right? You almost have to be there to get the full impact of it. So thanks for sharing.

John Shouse: You could feel it. And that was even without knowing the backstory. And then as I learned a little bit about the backstory, some of the struggles that each of them had gone through, and knowing the depth of conversation and support that they’d had with one [00:17:00] another, it made it all make sense. Yeah, absolutely, it was terrific.

David Hirsch: So regarding the financial commitment, the SFN MasterMind group dads invest anywhere from $50 to $200 per month according to their financial wherewithal. What would you say to a dad who’s interested in the MasterMind group concept but concerned about the financial commitment?

John Shouse: One of the realities, particularly for younger families, is money’s tight when you have a child with disability. Perhaps you’re paying for therapies or specific health care or whatever. There’s no question that money is tight. But I would challenge them to view this as an investment in themselves. $50 a month, you’ll pay that if you go out to eat at one somewhat decent restaurant. This is an investment in becoming a better father, becoming a better spouse and becoming a better man. And if that’s not worth at least $50, even in a tight budget, I don’t know what is. So I would challenge them to [00:18:00] jump in and think of it in that way. And as you’ve said in the past, putting a little skin in the game doesn’t really make them feel better about their participation.

David Hirsch: Well- spoken. So I’m thinking about advice and I’m wondering what advice you can share with a dad who might be on the fence about joining the MasterMind group.

John Shouse: I would say give it a try. Obviously there may be guys out there for whom it doesn’t feel like a good fit. But my experience is that the guys that have come to us that have maybe had a few doubts, they end up being some of our best guys after a few weeks and jumping in and giving it a try. So if they’re on the fence about it, what do you got to lose giving it a shot? I think they will find that it’s incredibly worthwhile.

David Hirsch: Thank you. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

John Shouse: Only a big thanks to you for your hard work in putting this together. I feel the organization is morphing three of these MasterMind groups into something that really touches a lot of guys real deeply, and I [00:19:00] just hope we can continue to grow this network and bring guys in who really need the care and support and nurturing that other dads have to offer.

David Hirsch: As my grandmother used to say, from your lips to God’s ears.

John Shouse: Yeah.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

John Shouse: Well, as I said, I blog at theverystuff.com. That phrase comes from a science fiction story that I read many years ago. They were looking for fuel or something and they found out that the rocks around in the planet they were on had the fuel. And the one guy said, “Look! Right here! It’s the very stuff we’re looking for.” So it’s a weird name. But they can go to theverystuff.com and there’s an email link there. So contacting me that way through email is probably the most straightforward.

David Hirsch: Excellent. I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes to make it as easy as possible for somebody to reach you. John, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, John is just one of the dads who’s agreed to be a Special Fathers Network mentor father and who is a SFN MasterMind Group Dad as well. For more information on the Special Fathers Network [00:20:00] and the MasterMind Group, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org. Additional links can be found in the show notes as well. John, thanks again.

John Shouse: Thank you, David. I really appreciate it.