360 – Jessica Ronne of Holland, MI Mother of Eight, Author, Podcast Host & Founder of The Lucas Project

Transcript:

Tom Couch: Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Working tirelessly to research, develop and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics mission at horizontherapeutics.com.

Jessica Ronne: Like I said, I had prepared to bury my child. That’s what I had been told all along. And then after two weeks of him being in the NICU and they hand me my baby and they’re like, no, he’s great. Good luck. We were just thrilled we were going home with our child.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Jessica Ronne, a mother, an author, a speaker, podcast host and founder of the Lucas Project, providing respite and resources to families of those with special needs. Jessica’s got an interesting story to tell and we’ll hear it on this week’s Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Two short messages. First, I’d like to thank those who donated more than $1,000 to the 2024 cycle to end Father Absence Campaign. In alphabetical order, they are Ina Byrd, Irene and Tom Costello, Kim Duchessois, Damien Navarro, Brad Surratt, don Stadler, and UBS Financial Services. We’re close to reaching our $50,000 goal and we can use your help. If you haven’t already done so, consider making a tax collectible contribution. You can do so by going to 21stCenturyDads.org. Secondly, the Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group Experience is one of the most comprehensive programs the 21st Century Dads foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs, meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat. As you think about the year ahead, I invite you to join one of the existing or soon to be formed Special Fathers Network Mastermind groups and join a group of like-minded dads to become the best version of yourself. It might just transform your life as it has done so for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stcenturydads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen in to this conversation between Jessica Ronne and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Jessica Ronne of Holland, Michigan. Author, speaker, podcast host, founder and executive director of the Lucas Project and perhaps most importantly, Wife and mother of eight, including one with special needs. Jess, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah, thanks for having me.

David Hirsch: You and your second husband, Ryan, have been married for 14 years, and between you are the proud parents of eight children. Four from your first marriage, Caleb, Lucas, Mabel, and Joshua, three from his first marriage, Tate, Mia, and Jada and Annabelle, 9, who you had together. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Jessica Ronne: I grew up in West Michigan as the oldest of 12 children. My father was an attorney, and my mother was a homemaker. And I went to school until eighth grade, and then my parents decided to homeschool all of us. I was not real excited about that decision. M. Everybody else seemed excited, but I wasn’t thrilled. I had sort of formed my friend group, and, you know, I knew what I was missing out on, but nevertheless, they persisted, and I had to accept my lot in life. I finished high school a year early. I guess that was one perk of being homeschooled. And enrolled in College. And at 17, and began my college journey.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, thanks for the brief flyby. The oldest of 12. Holy moly. And if I remember, in our previous conversation, you had mentioned that four of your siblings were actually adopted.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah. Two from Haiti and two from India. And my mom had two sets of twins as well. biological twins. So at 2 years old, I am often seen in photographs with my arms around my two newborn brothers. and I’ve come to the realization now, at 47 years old, I’ve kind of been in a caregiving role my whole life. just helping out in whatever capacity my mom needed help in.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, there’s a special place in my heart for parents like yourself. Not because of the size of the family, but because they opened up not only their home but their hearts to these, four adopted siblings, that you have. Right. It’s a special person, mom or dad, to be, able to do that. And, you know, there’s a lot of kids that are in orphanages or, you know, won’t know the love of a family like, we. We just take for granted

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David Hirsch: in many cases. So you mentioned your dad was an attorney. But I also remember that you told me that, he was the founder of something called Northgate holdings and Jellystone Parks. And I do remember Jellystone Parks when I was growing up. And I’m wondering if you can, shine a light on it from your perspective.

Jessica Ronne: Well, he didn’t own that until I was out of the house. so that was not really a part of my childhood. He began his career as an attorney and that’s what I remembered of him growing up. And then as his career progressed or he became bored or whatever that looked like, he transferred his energies into a business called Northgate Holdings. that was actually way further down down the line. He had numerous businesses that were successes and failures and, you know, all the things that go into being a, business owner and an investor. And right now he is CEO and founder of Northgate Holdings.

David Hirsch: Okay, and are they the owners of Jellystone Parks? Is that what it is?

Jessica Ronne: Or quite a few of them, yes. They invest in a lot of things, including many Jellystone Parks.

David Hirsch: Okay, well, I know that they’re very family centric, these Jellystone Parks are. Yes, that’s what came to mind. And if I remember it, if it’s the same thing, it’s like a Yogi Bear.

Jessica Ronne: Yes.

David Hirsch: You know, standing out front, greeting everybody, you know, very welcoming. So thanks for sharing. So I’m sort of curious to know, how would you characterize your relationship with your dad?

Jessica Ronne: It’s good. You know, being the oldest of 12, I think he and I have really profound conversations just about being a parent of so many children. I recognize how challenging that was, I think for him in trying to maintain a relationship with each child. Now that I’m also a mom of eight, we’ve had conversations about that, how challenging it is for me, as well as a mom of eight and a full time working mom, to still be very intentional about making sure that each of my children receives my time and my attention. And I’ve learned to recognize as well, he is a problem solver. He’s a brilliant problem solver. That’s how he’s built his career. And I now see the same traits in myself in a different capacity, more in, you know, the special needs community or in the blended family community. But if there’s a problem, I don’t ever look at problems and think there isn’t a solution. I look at a problem and I say there is a solution. We just haven’t found it yet. And so I’m grateful that he instilled that in me as well. And also a deep sense of independence. We weren’t given handouts, we paid for our own college, we purchased our own vehicles. And he really believed and still believes in hard work to this day. He’s happy to help, but he’s not somebody who is going to give you a, handout. Necessarily. I’ve taken many of those lessons and apply them to my own mothering as well. I think there is a lot of value in hard work and earning what you want in life. And I do believe that you have more respect for yourself and more respect for whatever you’ve earned if you have some skin in the game.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, those are some amazing characteristics. Thanks for sharing. About being a problem solver, sense of independence, and having a good work ethic. You know, if you can embrace each of those three, I don’t want to say you’re bulletproof, but, you know, life will, be, a little bit different than if somebody hands you something on a silver platter. Right. And you feel it’s entitlement.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And it might undermine your initiative. Right. To, you know, go out and do things on your own. So, kudos to your dad, your parents, for that matter. So I’m thinking about other father figures and I’m wondering what, if any, influence your grandfather said, first on your dad’s side and then on your mom’s side.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah, my dad’s side, he was a pastor, a very well respected pastor. You know, the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. He exemplified all of that. They lived a very simple life. They were not wealthy people. They had four children. And he was just a very steady, faithful presence in my life. And then on my maternal side, my grandfather worked as a salesman at a local appliance store. He was also a cook and in one of the wars. So I just have a lot of really happy memories around his table. He was always the one cooking the roast or the turkey or the German chocolate cake for somebody’s birthday. And again, just a very steady presence. He had gardens and I would work in his gardens with him and we would have BLT sandwiches and I would go on Sunday walks with him. So both grandfathers, steady, faithful presence in my life.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing. You’re very fortunate to, not only know your grandfathers, but to have them play an, influential role in your life, like you made reference. So my recollection was

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that you went to Calvin University, took a degree in education, and then years later you went to Grand Valley State and got a master’s in, English language and literature. And I’m wondering, early on, where did you see your career taking you?

Jessica Ronne: I wanted to be a journalist for the Detroit Pistons. That was my one and only goal as a homeschooled teenage girl. My mother was obsessed with the Detroit Pistons. And so we weren’t allowed to watch a lot of television, but we were allowed to watch every single Pistons game. So the entire family became like Piston fanatics. And my dad formed a relationship with somebody who was high up in the Pistons organization, became an investor. I would drive my dad to Detroit for business meetings with this individual. And I just got it in my head that I wanted to go to school and earn an English degree and become a journalist for the Detroit Pistons someday. And then I got into school and I guess changed my mind and decided to go into education instead.

David Hirsch: So when you took your degree in education, where did you see your career pointing you?

Jessica Ronne: That was kind of challenging for me. I still really wanted to be a writer, but it didn’t seem like you could really make a career out of writing. You needed to start somewhere else that was actually gonna pay you money. And so I sought out part time jobs. I worked at a Sylvan learning center as a tutor. I was an after school school director. I did some subbing. But anything that was in education in a part time capacity was, was what was appealing to me because I still wanted to write as well. So I would work part time and, and save time for my writing on the side.

David Hirsch: Well, it’s certainly paid off this interest that you’ve had in writing. And I think of it as creating content. Right. That others would find a value and interest. We’ll talk a little bit about your books in a few minutes. So you’ve been married twice. I was very sad to learn when I first heard about your story that your first husband, Jason, who you had four children with, passed away in 2010 of brain cancer if I remember. And you met Ryan, who coincidentally whose wife had passed away about the same time. And how is it that the two of you met?

Jessica Ronne: That’s a fun story. So we each blogged through our journeys with our spouses. I blogged from Michigan, he blogged from Oklahoma, and a stranger from Pennsylvania who followed both of our blogs reached out to me and said, I have no idea why I’m telling you to do this, but I feel like you should check out this guy’s blog. He’s a young widower, he lost his wife to brain cancer and he’s not doing very well. I think you could be a source of encouragement to him. So I found his blog, left a comment, woke up the next day to an email from this guy and we just started pouring out our hearts to each other. We were on the phone within a Week. we met three months later, and we were married within nine months or so.

David Hirsch: That is wild. That is really wild.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah, it is wild. I know. I look back and think, was I thinking clearly? Maybe not, but.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, you’re both obviously gone through some pretty, traumatic experiences with the illnesses of your respective spouses being single parents. Solo parents, not just single parents, which I differentiate. You know, if you’re a single parent, that usually implies that there’s another parent, you know, somewhere in the orbit. But, as a solo parent, it’s all on you. And, it’s not lost on me that one of your four kids, your initial biological kids, you know, has profound special needs. So, you know, your center of gravity has gotten rocked dramatically. It is remarkable that you found one another. And you’re 14 years into your blended family, and you, had the ambition of not, being satisfied with seven children between the two of you. And, here’s Annabelle, who’s, nine years old now. So, Is it safe to say that you might be done having children?

Jessica Ronne: We are. Although she keeps begging, and I keep telling her, mom’s eggs are old. We’re done. And then she’ll say, can’t you just adopt? How much is it to adopt a baby? No, we’re not going to adopt.

David Hirsch: Like your parents said, you know, Grandma and Grandpa did that. Why can’t you do that? Right.

Jessica Ronne: Right. No, you are. You are it, honey.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, thanks for sharing. I, just love that story. So let’s talk about special needs, personal level, and then, beyond. So prior to Lucas’s birth, did you or Jason have any connection to the world of disability or special needs?

Jessica Ronne: No, not really. My only recollection is I had a friend who convinced me to volunteer in the special needs classroom at church when I was maybe 13 or 14 years old, and I reluctantly joined her.

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Jessica Ronne: She had a heart for it and a passion for it, and I just, I thought, sure, I’ll join you. I enjoy hanging out with you. So we did that a couple of times, but that’s about the extent of my interaction with the special needs community.

David Hirsch: So what is Lucas’s diagnosis and how did it come about?

Jessica Ronne: He has numerous diagnoses. he experienced a stroke in utero prior to 20 weeks. He has hydrocephalus, Chiari malformation, tethered spinal cord intellectual disability. Severe autism, scoliosis, low muscle tone, low vision. Just needs assistance in every aspect of his life.

David Hirsch: And was there a speech delay or does he communicate verbally?

Jessica Ronne: He does not. he has a few words, but it’s more of a sing song language. If he wants his juice, he’ll say, juice, please. It’s like everything’s sort of sing songy.

David Hirsch: But he is able to communicate. That’s what I hear you saying.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe 20 words or so.

David Hirsch: Okay. And he’s. He been able to get any education, any schooling, or has it been, mostly, therapy, type of, interaction?

Jessica Ronne: No. We have a really great school here in West Michigan where they attend until they’re 26, and he receives all of his education, physical therapy, OT, speech, everything in this building. So that’s been a huge blessing.

David Hirsch: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. But you always haven’t lived in Michigan either.

Jessica Ronne: No, that’s why we moved back. We realized what we were missing when we moved to Tennessee.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, there’s a whole other story there. We’re not going to have enough time to go into it. You’ll have to read the book to learn more about that.

Jessica Ronne: Right.

David Hirsch: But, when, he was born, you obviously knew that, there was going to be some challenges just to know the extent of those challenges. And I was wondering, what were your fears? What were your and Jason’s fears at that point in time?

Jessica Ronne: Time, nothing, honestly. we were told that he would never be born. So when he was born and I had my miracle baby that I was going home with, I didn’t care at all about what additional needs he had or what diagnoses he had. I was just thrilled that I was not burying my baby, that I was going home with a live baby, and I was happy to accept whatever came along with him at that point.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, that’s remarkable. Was there some advice you got early on that helped you put that in perspective?

Jessica Ronne: I don’t think so. Like I said, I had prepared to bury my child. That’s what I had been told all along. And then after two weeks of him being in the NICU and they hand me my baby and they’re like, no, he’s great. Good luck. They didn’t really give us, like, a list of things that could potentially occur or. We didn’t have those conversations. It was just, he has hydrocephalus. He has a shunt. So make sure you’re watching for any shunt malfunction. But outside of that, there was no predetermination of what might occur down the road.

David Hirsch: Oh, wow.

Jessica Ronne: We were just thrilled we were going home with our child.

David Hirsch: Were there some important decisions you made, down the road with the benefit of hindsight that helped, you put, the challenges in perspective.

Jessica Ronne: Later on, as he became challenging, I think it really dawned on me that I was going to be a, forever caregiver. As Lucas began to go through puberty. Up until that point, he was just a sweet little boy. He was, you know, incontinent and still in diapers. But we could still find people to help babysit or watch him or, you know, give us a weekend away, because he was. He was still just a cute little boy at 8 years old. But when he began to go through puberty at, 13, 14 years old, and he’s still incontinent, and now he’s aggressive and he’s screaming and he’s hurting his siblings, and he’s lashing out, and we can’t find any help anymore because he’s not a cute little boy that people want to help with. I think that’s when I really recognize, like, this is a lifelong gig, and I can’t continue like this and be a healthy individual if we don’t ever get any breaks. And so that was really. The shift occurred for me when he was about 13, 14 years old.

David Hirsch: Not to focus on the negative, but would have been some of the biggest challenges?

Jessica Ronne: The aggression, the screaming, watching him hurt his siblings and not being able to protect them as. And he. He doesn’t really understand what he’s doing or what he was doing. But, you know, when your young daughter walks by at, three, four years old, and Lucas wants somebody to help him, and he reaches out and, like, grabs her hair and yanks on her, and she’s crying and trying to explain to Lucas, you know, don’t do that. That hurts your sister. And trying to explain to her he doesn’t really understand what he’s doing. And then just that lack of help, like, it was crickets. Nobody wanted to help anymore because

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Jessica Ronne: he wasn’t a cute little boy anymore. And so that was just really challenging as a family to be like, what, do we do? We can’t. We’re trapped. We’re trapped in our home. Nobody wants to help. There aren’t services or support for families like ours. And Lucas is no longer a cute little boy, but the world views him as, like, a scary young man. That’s when, you know, the house started to feel like a tomb a little bit.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, my heart reaches out to you. I’ve heard, many other stories about what happens when, you know, people who have different types of disabilities, and a lack of understanding or control over their situation. And, you know, it’s their hormones raging. You know, it’s usually with boys as opposed to girls, and they’re, getting physically bigger and stronger. Right. And, you know, it does create, a dynamic that becomes, very problematic. Like you were discussing, and I’m wondering beyond just like, pulling Annabelle’s hair, what, impact Lucas’s situations had on his siblings, your marriage, or the extended family, for that matter.

Jessica Ronne: The siblings helped a lot. We have a chore chart system and an allowance system, so they were paid to help. But the expectation was, you know, we need help with feeding him. Or, you know, our kids would often receive screen time if they would sit beside Luke and help Luke navigate his screen. So there was a lot of expectation. You know, you’re part of this family, and we do need your help. As for our marriage, it’s that divide and conquer that I was talking to you about. Lucas, because of his autism and just his personality, doesn’t like new situations. So if our other children were going to be involved in something like sports or, you know, homecoming or whatever that looked like, one of us would focus on the neurotypical children and one of us would be home with Lucas. And it was just always this divide and conquer. Or if there was a fourth of July party that family was throwing, you know, one of us would attend with the siblings, and one of us would stay home with Luke because Luke wouldn’t enjoy it, and he would actually make it miserable for everyone because he would just scream. So it was just constantly this. This tension of divide and conquer and not being able to do things as a complete family unit.

David Hirsch: Well, I. I do remember, in, one of the books, I can’t remember which one, that, you. You made an effort to include him. Right? You. It’s not like you always loved him at home or didn’t.

Jessica Ronne: Right.

David Hirsch: But the reality of the situation, from what I hear you saying, is that, you know, it usually manifested itself right, in the way that his siblings would have expected. And it did create a lot of, turmoil, or tension. And, you know, you can only tolerate that so much. And I think that the natural maybe solution is to divide and conquer, like you were saying, right? And it, you know, splinters things. Right. You’re not doing things as a large family, but, maybe that’s just the reality of having a large family too. Right? Is that, you know, it’s hard to do things, you know, if there’s eight of them and two of you. You know, I didn’t Ask. But what type of vehicle can you put your whole family in, for God’s sakes?

Jessica Ronne: We, we had an extended van.

David Hirsch: Okay.

Jessica Ronne: For a while. We don’t anymore. We’re down to a minivan now. But we did have an extended van.

David Hirsch: Okay. Yeah, well, with, even with five kids, we had, two Yukon XLS or Suburbans. Right. And instead of just having one and having a family car, we had two. So either one of us, regardless of who, was sort of like, you know, the point person. You know, we always had the capacity for our own kids and maybe one or two of their friends. You know, you do have to, think about different strategies, right. You probably have friends, Jesse, that they have one child. So it’s like two on one parents to child.

David Hirsch: Or you have some friends that have two children, right. We joke and say that’s having man to man defense.

Jessica Ronne: Right.

David Hirsch: When there’s the equal number. And then once you get to three children, you know, compared to the two parents, you’re in zone defense. Right. Not to draw on your interest in the pistons, but that’s where this analogy is going, right. You know, you’re, you have different strategies when you’re in zone defense than you do when you’re man on man. And you know, we lost control with our third. Right. So it’s just a different degree of out of control when you go from three of them to four of them to five of them. And you know, I can’t speak beyond that from experience, but, that divide and conquer strategy is usually one that, you know, comes in pretty handy.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person,

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Tom Couch: mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So I’m thinking about supporting organizations. I’m wondering, what organizations has Lucas benefited from or your family benefited from that we might shine a bright light on the Lucas project?

Jessica Ronne: Not a lot, honest. Well, Lori’s voice here, in West Michigan has purchased some expensive equipment for us throughout the years, but we’ve also tried to participate in a, night to shine, which I kind of knew what Lucas’s reaction would be. And he did not enjoy being at the Prom. But we tried it, and I appreciate what they do for other families, but it just wasn’t something that Lucas wanted to participate in. Yeah. Other than that, you know, I created the Lucas Project to help families like ours. And that’s the non profit that carries his namesake, and that’s the one that we’ve also benefited from as well, and having some respite opportunities.

David Hirsch: So let’s pivot and talk about that. How old is it? What was your original vision, and, what is the primary focus?

Jessica Ronne: I started it in 2017 as Lucas was going through puberty. And we lived in rural Tennessee, and we had no support and no breaks and no respite. And I just thought, you know, if we’re this desperate for a break, there has to be other special needs families who also need a break. And I googled how to start a nonprofit. Printed off the papers, filled them out, sent them out. A few weeks later, I was apparently a founder of a nonprofit. All right, what do I do now?

David Hirsch: Yeah, you’re president and CEO.

Jessica Ronne: Like, it’s like president, CEO. All right. So I went to a local school and asked if we could partner with them and use their facility to offer once a month respite opportunities for special needs families. They agreed. We hired a director, and we started once a month respite for these families completely, free of charge. It was a five hour chunk of time. It was amazing and life giving. And then Covid hit and we had to pivot and figure out how we were going to provide respite to these families when we couldn’t offer it in person. So then we started our care package initiative. And you can go on our website and nominate a caregiver for a care package. And we send them even to this day, like respite in a box. And we are getting ready to launch respite days here in west Michigan. Again, we’ve partnered with a local church, and that, again, will be that five hour chunk of time. We’re excited to be able to offer this to our local community. And then our future goal is to create a model that we can share with other communities that also want to offer respite.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I love it. And from your lips to God’s ears, I’m hoping that that will be embraced. So, I’d like to talk, a little bit about some of the other things that you’ve been doing. the blog, the Jess plus the mess. That’s a pretty creative sort of title or description of your situation. I love the way you sort of have this way of self depreciating humor.

Jessica Ronne: I’m just going to say what everybody’s thinking anyway.

David Hirsch: Call a spade a spade.

Jessica Ronne: Right?

David Hirsch: You have a podcast that you host most coffee with caregivers. And then you’ve been very prolific as it relates to your writing, your interest in journalism. The first book, if I remember the sequence, was Sunlight Burning at Midnight, which is a memoir. And then Loving with Grit, and Grace, which was printed and then reprinted and then blended with Grit and Grace, which is reflecting on your blended family. And then the most recent book which just came out is Caregiving with Grit, and Grace. The, the two that I sort of was able to dive into were the Loving with Great and Grace. And what I loved about the way that you framed the book is that you came up with this acronym for his and hers. And it wasn’t like these are for him and these are for her. But you use the letters his, health, intimacy, sex, which is always something that gets people’s attention, household tasks, excitement, romance and spirituality. And it gives you an opportunity to drill down and reflect on you know, what that means in the world of having a large blended family and you know, with a child with profound special needs. And I’d like to have you speak to. What was it that you were trying to accomplish and where did the his and her concept come from?

Jessica Ronne: Well, you read the book, so you read the introduction and it actually originated from a big fight that I had with my husband where I was trying to explain to him yet again about the concept of romance, which he still. We constantly have this conversation. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for men to understand what romance is,

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Jessica Ronne: but it seems particularly difficult for my husband. and so it became this big blowout fight that we had on a vacation because he had promised me when we were on vacation I would get all the romance I would ever want because he would have more time and attention to give me. And we were on said vacation and there still wasn’t any romance happening. And so that led to a long conversation that night where we kind of came up together with this acronym of his and hers and these different categories of things that are really important for a marriage to address on a consistent basis. And even in these categories, like it’s not going to look the same for every marriage. So you know, some people might place a heavy emphasis on household tasks. Like that might really mean a lot to one of the partners that the house is always clean and tidy. That’s not really a big deal to us. But like, romance is a big deal to me. So coming together, touching base on, which ones are important to us as a married couple and which ones are important to us individually. And then honing in and having those really honest and vulnerable conversations where you ask each other, you know, do you feel like your needs are being met in this area? And that can be a challenging conversation, but I really think it’s, it’s very much needed for a healthy marriage or relationship in general.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, it’s brilliant. And what I like is that, in each of the chapters or, each of the sections, you’re the voice and then there’s Ryan’s take. So, I thought it was very revealing, right, because you’re talking about the same situation and you have different perspectives. Right? Not like right or wrong, but you have different perspectives. And the thought that came to mind when I was like a young married person, I’ve been married for 41 years now. It’s remarkable that we’re still married because I’m such a Neanderthal about things. And my wife would say, yeah, that’s correct. There’s this book, I forgot who the author was. But it’s men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

David Hirsch: Right. It’s like been around for eons, right? Maybe 40 or 50 years. And it is so true. We have different ways of communicating. Men and women just communicate differently. We look at the world differently. You could be, you have the same lived experience and you’re like, are you serious? Are you on a different planet? Literally?

Jessica Ronne: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And anyway, I’ve asked him that.

Jessica Ronne: I do not understand why you are not hearing me.

David Hirsch: Right. And most people, if you’re not getting your message through to your spouse, you’re just going to talk louder, right? Like maybe it’s a hearing loss that they’re experiencing. That’s not the issue. Right. It’s not like you could just say, hey, you need to turn up your hearing aid. Right? You’re not hearing me. It’s, it’s a lack of understanding. But, one of the things I also enjoy in each of the books, at least the two that I’ve, read, is that you’ve sprinkled in these, recipes. Right. I know that that probably appeals to women more so than men, but I thought, these are like little bonuses, right, that you’re throwing along. But, you know, you have a very, effective way of communicating about, what the, analogy is right. Between cooking and what goes into creating, you know, sort of a flavorful recipes. And you know why that is important. Right. And you’re emphasizing your point. Whatever the point is in each of these sort of, sections. So, it’s obviously that you have a love for food and cooking food and, sharing. Right. And I think that one of the most important things we do as parents is bringing our families together is the shared experience that we create over meals, particularly, you know, dinner, and just having that be the bedrock of, you know, family time. And it’s hard, especially when you have a large family. Right. Because they’re involved, your kids are involved in different activities, and everybody’s on a little bit different schedule. It takes so much organization. Right. And coordination to bring the whole family together. So, is there something you want to say about your recipes?

Jessica Ronne: No, I’ll just. I’ll reiterate what you just said. It is very important for me as the mom to bring my family together around the table. And I think that’s. It is a love of food, but it’s a love of family, and it’s how I show my love. Our oldest still comes home. He’s 22 years old, still comes home every night for dinner. And yeah, maybe I’m kind of bribing him a little bit by continuing to make home cooked meals, but I enjoy that. And there’s just something very heartwarming when, you know, a pot of chili or a lasagna can bring together your family and you can all laugh around the table. And, I mean, that’s what life is all about, right? It’s those memories that you make with those that you love.

David Hirsch: Absolutely. So let’s spend a moment talking about the documentary unseen. What’s the backstory on that?

Jessica Ronne: That was part of the Lucas project, really. Our mission statement was to provide recognition, resources, and respite for special needs families. And we figured out the respite, we figured out the resources, and it was this recognition part that was just kind of tripping me up a little bit. I had the podcast, I was speaking nationwide about the caregiver

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Jessica Ronne: crisis, but I just felt like there had to be a better medium in order to reach the public. And so one day I had this idea about a documentary. I just hopped on Facebook and I said, hey, I have this great idea. I’d love to create a film that’s kind of a behind the scenes look into the life of a special needs family. If there are any filmmakers or producers out there who would like to get together and talk about this idea. please send me a message. And lo and behold, there was a filmmaker and a producer In Nashville, about 30 minutes from where we lived. They were very interested in getting together and talking about the project. we met for lunch about a week later. And four years later, we created this documentary on seeing how we’re failing parent caregivers and why it matters. You know, they say it takes a village to raise a child, and I don’t know that that can be any more true than for parents of special needs children. We absolutely need that village to surround us, and the village is never there. Ignorance is bliss. She’s fine, he’s fine, they’re fine. And we just can’t do that anymore. Most caregivers are not fine, and they’re not doing well. We’re really excited. It landed on PBS last year. It’s headed to ABC this February, and it’s led to a second project as well, which we just released the trailer a couple weeks ago.

David Hirsch: I’ll try to include something in the show notes. So I’m sort of curious to know, what role has spirituality played in your lives?

Jessica Ronne: My faith has been everything for me. It’s been an act of surrender. Everything that’s occurred in my life, from Lucas diagnosis to losing my late husband, to even the struggles we’ve had as a blended family, it’s all an act of surrender. And it’s an acknowledgement that God is God and I am not. And I may not ever fully understand why these things have occurred in my life or to me, this side of eternity. But all I know is that my job is to run my race in obedience to what he’s called me to do to the best of my ability. And I do believe that I will have my reward in this life or the next. And that’s what propels me to keep going.

David Hirsch: Very well spoken. Thank you. So I’m thinking about advice, and I’m wondering what advice you might offer a parent, specifically dads, who find themselves in a situation that they might not have anticipated as it relates to having a child or children with special health care needs.

Jessica Ronne: For myself, I’ve had to reframe my perspective a bit and not view it as negative, but more as holy work. I believe it’s the holiest work we can do this side of eternity is caring for somebody who cannot care for themselves. And also, I would just encourage your listeners to stay present. I think we miss so much joy in the present moment because we’re so hyper fixated. On the future what ifs, what if my child dies? What if I never have a. A future residential home for my child? What if my loved one doesn’t go into remission? All those what ifs can kind of haunt us and steal our current joy. And I know that’s challenging to stay present, but to stay present to the best of our ability so that we don’t miss out on those moments.

David Hirsch: You know, I like the fact that if you can sort of, look at things not from a negative perspective, but, you know, maybe see it from God’s perspective that you’re doing holy work like you were suggesting. And then, I always talk about the importance of being present.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah.

David Hirsch: It’s so difficult because we get bogged down by things that happen in the past or worrying about things that are going on in the future. So I’m wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up.

Jessica Ronne: You know, just my hashtag, just keep living. I think we just have to continue to meander through this thing called life one step at a time. That’s where the joy is. It’s in each step that we take forward.

David Hirsch: So true. Let’s give a special shout out to Scott Sowers of Lilburn, Georgia, Podcast dad number nine for helping connect us.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah, thank you.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about your work or to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

Jessica Ronne: Probably, head to my website, jessronne.com or I’m on Facebook Jessronneofficial Instagram Jess plus the mess I think mine. All the. All the places.

David Hirsch: It’s not very difficult to find you. I’ll try to include as many of those as I can in the show notes. It’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow. Wonderful, Jess. Thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Jess is just one of the individuals who’s part of the Special Fathers Network mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to

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David Hirsch: Dad podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax actable contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Jess. Thanks again.

Jessica Ronne: Yeah, thank you.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturydads.Org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook group facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david@21stcenturydads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch. Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at horizontherapeutics.com.

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