394 – Jelani Memory of Portland, OR Father Of Six, Entrepreneur, Author & Founder Of A Kids Company

Transcript:

Jelani Memory: A lot of times your kids are sitting there in plain sight telling you exactly what you need to hear to help them and love them and care for them, especially with our kids who are differently abled. And for me to just slow down and not need to get out the door so quick or get that thing done and just go, what is my kid telling me? And can I just hear them? and then try and take an action after that based on what they’ve told me. That’s really something my kids have taught me.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week. A serial entrepreneur, author and founder of A Kids Co, offering kids guidebooks on a whole slew of different topics. Jelani is father to six children, two who have ADHD and one who has scoliosis and other undiagnosed conditions. We’ll hear all about Jelani, his kids, his books and his life on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. One brief message. The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs, meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending the in-person weekend retreat scheduled this year from September 5th through the 7th in Chicago. I invite you to attend the Special Fathers Network Mastermind group retreat. You’ll meet some extraordinary dads, exchange a lot of best practices and recharge your fatherhood battery for the journey ahead. It might just transform your life like it has done for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen in to this conversation between Jelani Memory and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m, thrilled to be talking today with Jelani Memory of Portland, Oregon, who’s the father of six, an entrepreneur, author and visionary founder of A Kids Co. Jelani, first wrote a kid’s book about racism for his own children, which grew into a movement that now includes more than 200 books, podcasts and videos, helping kids and families talk openly about some of life’s toughest topics, from anxiety to gratitude, feminism, cancer and beyond. Jelani, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, of course. Glad to be here, David.

David Hirsch: You and your wife Brandy have been married for nine years. And the proud parents of six children, including four stepchildren. Your children’s names are Rowan, 21, Grace, 19, Jay, 16, Sebastian, 15, Titus, 14, and Solomon, 7. Between them, two have ADHD, one has scoliosis and some other undiagnosed conditions. It sounds like it would be exhausting being a dad of six kids, particularly those ages.

Jelani Memory: It’s a lot of work. somehow the love and the capacity and almost the time in the day scales with the amount of kids. But it’s both wonderful and exhausting. Yes.

David Hirsch: So when you’re going someplace as a whole family, what type of vehicle do you have?

Jelani Memory: Well, it’s, we. We’ve gone from, let’s see, an Acura MDX. My wife had a Suburban for a while. now she drives a bigger car and I drive the smaller car. Now that we have two, of the kids are out of the house and we’re just down to four of them in the home, which feels like downscale from having six. but yeah, I mean, you know, everything’s a production. Right. Going out to eat at Red Robin or going to a mov. The logistics, the expense, all of it, is complicated. And yet I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I love it as a father of five. Not, so young kids. They’re 28 to 35 now. It was a lot of work, like you said, but, you know, it goes by so fast.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: You blink and they’re in high school, then in college and then beyond. And then all of a sudden you’re empty nesters. Right. So anyway, let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell, me something about your family.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. Grew up in Portland, Oregon. Love the city, love calling it home. The youngest of, four kids. White mom, black dad. And if you know anything about Portland, Oregon, it’s the whitest big city in America, per capita. You know, growing up navigating race, culture, color and racism was, constant. often being the only black kid in a classroom and one of maybe two or three black kids in an entire school. From elementary school all the way through college. I only had one black teacher, from kindergarten to my senior year of college. Mr. Nelson, our PE teacher. The other piece was, my dad not being around. He would leave the family around, when I was four years old, so I don’t have any memories of him in the home, but I would see him on the news or in the

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Jelani Memory: newspaper or, from, teachers or other folks. In the community or at school, because he was a famous jazz musician. And in that way, even though I never saw my dad, I loved my dad. I worshiped my dad. I wanted to be like my dad. And my mom never had a bad word to say about him, even though he really, you know, neglected his duties as our father. And I wasn’t able to deal or recognize those hurts, that loss, until I got into adulthood and really spent a lot of time navigating that through therapy, through my own exploration, and of course, you know, directly with him, trying to reconcile that, that missing piece of my life, you know, my dad missing. But I was always a creative kid. Wanted, to be an artist ever since I was five years old, growing up. And, you know, when I got to college, I stumbled upon this thing called entrepreneurship and realized it may be the only thing that I’m made to do. And, I’m like a terrible employee, but wonderful, like a, like a dog with a bone, chasing an idea and making it happen. And I’ve been able to spend most of my career chasing that.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, thanks for the brief flyby. I think of people like yourself and in a friendly way, have the adult version of ADHD. You know, you just have all this energy and it’s coming out in different ways and, you know, it’s like a, turbine, right? You know, just spinning and spinning. And, you mentioned your dad was a famous jazz musician. And, I think in a prior conversation mentioned he was a Grammy Award winning jazz musician as well.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, Grammy Award winning was, the arranger for, Spaulding, who by the way, won Best new Artist, I think at the Grammys the same year that, Justin Bieber was up for the award, which was just sort of a funny, happenstance, but I mean, just a giant in the jazz world. But also here in Portland and in Oregon, I still cannot walk down the street or go do a speaking engagement without somebody who knew or knew of my dad and asking me, am I his, son? Which was elating as a kid because, you know, everybody knew my dad. And then when I got into my teen years, it got really complicated because I was like, you guys feel like, you know him, I don’t know him at all. And then they would always say the same things. You must be so proud. You must be so proud to be his son. You must be so proud of him. And it was by that time that I started to think, well, I’m not really, because, I don’t know the guy and he is, he doesn’t have any role in my life and I didn’t do anything to deserve that. And I’ve been able to, into adulthood, be more forthcoming with that story and I think provide a bigger, broader, more holistic picture of who my dad was, but also what that meant for me growing up and how I formed and developed and how that made me, I think in a very specific way, focus on being a really great dad. Realizing that I had this huge hole that I had been trying to fill and just making sure my kids never had to deal with that.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, it’s something I can relate to. The whole impetus behind creating the Illinois Fatherhood Initiative 27 years ago, the 21st Century Dads 10 years ago had to do with that same type of hole in my life. when my parents divorced, my dad got remarried right away and became a dad to somebody else’s kids and didn’t see him for the better part of seven years.

Jelani Memory: Wow.

David Hirsch: And, you know, it affects you. Right. You don’t know at the time what the impact’s going to be. But, I think one of the outputs of all that was that, you know, I was going to do things a different way.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Right. I was going to compensate or maybe over compensate. Right. So the pendulum swings one way, like you were describing with your relationship with your dad, or lack of relationship, and now I suspect the pendulum has swung the other way with the, presence that you’ve been focused on being in your own children’s lives.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, no, that’s exactly it. And, and it’s, it’s caused me to explore sort of what is our role as parents. If I can become the kind of dad that I, based on my dad not being around. What does that even mean? Right. Is that about my, own capability or interest or that wound or, or is there some secret in there about the importance of parents, but also the importance of not over parenting and into trying to determine our children’s future. So it’s something I’ve been exploring lately quite a bit.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, it’s a big topic and the way I think about it, a couple things come to mind and a bell curve distribution of outcomes. Right. You’re an outlier. You’re in one of those tales.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: You know, you’re the exception because on a percentage basis, you know, there’s something on the order of 24 million kids growing up in father absent homes, and kids that grow up in father absent homes, you know, have 2-5, 10x propensity to be involved with drugs and alcohol, crime and incarceration, teen suicide and pregnancy. So the fact that

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David Hirsch: you sort of navigated life as successfully as you have means that you’re an outlier.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And I remember people taking me to task years ago when we started the Illinois Fatherhood Initiative. You know, what do I know?

Jelani Memory: I’m a young dad.

David Hirsch: I’ve got five kids, seven years and under, and, they’re like, hey, what about, Barack Obama? He didn’t, have a dad in his life. And how about Bill Clinton? He didn’t have a dad in his life. And, you know, they turned out pretty good. They’re president of the freaking United States. And, I’m like, well, that’s true. And I just went back to, like, you know, the statistics and said, you know, there are outliers. There are exceptions to the rule. And, you know, we can’t, you know, base our policies and the way we do things based on anecdotal stories. Right. you have to look at the big picture.

Jelani Memory: Sure.

David Hirsch: Right. What’s happening, really happening with this breakdown of the family? There’s way, way too many single moms. Like, your mom was like, my mom was right. Doing whatever they can to keep their kids on the straight and narrow and hopefully avoid all the potholes, and things that are, you know, taking families down these days.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So anyway, my recollection was that you did reconcile with your dad later in life. And I’m wondering, you know, if you could describe sort of the process or how that came about.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, it was extraordinary and something that I never thought would happen. So I make it all the way through grade school, middle school, high school, and through college. You know, seeing my dad really a dozen times, maybe during that period of time. I become a dad myself at around 25. still no contact with my father. Not really by choice. Just. He’s just totally absent. I don’t know where he lives. I don’t know what his phone number is. I wouldn’t even know how to get a hold of him. And, at some point, out of the blue, I’m, gosh, probably around 30 or so, my dad reaches out and I. I’m surprised he has my number. Like, that’s how out of contact we are. And he said, I’d love to just sit down and talk with you. And everything in me just said, you know, no way. Like, you don’t deserve this. Like, we don’t have a relationship. And by that point, like, you know, I had already been in years in therapy over just having an absent father and had pretty calcified sort of hate ambivalence sort of had earned my bitterness towards him, which was only really hurting me. But I didn’t quite grind rock that at the time. But something in the back of my head just said, you know, just, just go hear him out, see what he has to say. And so I, I cart along my, my three year old daughter at the time and you know, we chat for the first time ever in my life and he’s there. He’s really struggled with his diabetes over his lifetime and never really took care of himself. He’s in a wheelchair, he’s missing a leg, he’s missing a few digits, he’s got an oxygen machine. You know, he’s only like 60 years old at this point point, really struggling and he just, he said everything I needed to hear my father say. He apologized for all of it, all of them. Missed everything and shared with, you know, me the deep regret and the loss that he felt not having a relationship with his kids. And was very direct, said, you know, like I chased fame and fortune and notoriety. And he’s like, I got it. And he goes, none of it was worth it at all because I really wish I’d chosen you kids.

David Hirsch: Wow.

Jelani Memory: Which you could just, you know, like, again, not the thing that I expected to hear from my dad. And in that moment I realized two things. One is that I was ready to forgive him and I was ready to let go of the hate and the bitterness and all of those bad feelings because they were only destroying me. They weren’t hurting him and I didn’t want to hurt him. That, that wasn’t my goal. Right. And then the second thing was, is I realized I was my father but on a different path. I remember very clearly in the room thinking, this is like getting to meet a time traveling version of myself who took a wrong path, genuinely, who’s like, you know, beat up, battered and just like, don’t go the way that I did. It didn’t work out because, you know, both my father and I, like, creative, you know, like smart, driven, artistic, obsessive, very singular. This is my dad and I, and, and he had chosen that path to chase that and chase that alone. And, and I had made a really early decision really in my teenage years to go, I want nothing more than to be a dad and I want to be a good dad. I want to, I want, I want lots of kids and I want to be present in their lives. And that was due to me having a handful of nieces that I got to be like a father figure to in their lives, you know, very sort of clearly.

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Jelani Memory: And, and this amazing weight was taken off my shoulders that day. My father and I didn’t have like this amazing relationship and like went to movies and dinners after that, you know, that’s not what happened. But we did stay in contact and I was able to be there the day he died, which was just the day before Father’s Day, gosh, seven or so years ago. And I got to close that, that chapter of the missing father and I got to make sense of my own presence in my kids lives and really take care at this idea of going. I have not always been there for my kids, but I will be, continue to be there for my kids. And so much so that they take it for granted, my presence, my presence at everything that they can say, I am more likely to miss a work thing than the other way around. And that is just default for them. And I’m really proud to say that.

David Hirsch: Very powerful story. Thank you for sharing. It gave me chills, right. To think about you and your dad meeting the way you described it in his dilapidated condition after a long, successful, very successful career and realizing, hey, you know, I was chasing that shiny object or whatever it was. Right. And reflecting or looking back and saying, you know, I, I made a mistake. Right.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And it sounded like he was speaking from the heart to you and maybe giving you a little bit of preview. Right. Maybe don’t do it the same way I did. Right. Chart your own path. Yeah, there’s another way. And, that’s pretty powerful. very few men, I’m thinking about your dad when I say men, you know, would be able to, have that type of conversation, just totally come clean and say, hey, you know, I did what I wanted to do. I was selfish. I was very, narcissistic. Narcissist about the whole thing.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And there’s this shrapnel that goes out right through your family. No, I’m not going to take a deep dive and ask, you know, what happened to your older, brother and you know, sisters. But, you know, it affects everybody a little bit differently.

Jelani Memory: Yep. Yeah. The grenade exploded, you know, all of our lives and affected us all very differently. And you know, some of my siblings weren’t able to have those outlier outcomes that I’ve been able to have.

David Hirsch: So I’m wondering if there’s any father, influencers, perhaps your grandfathers or other Men who played an important role when you were a younger guy.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, yeah. tremendously. So. No grandpa’s around, on my dad or my mom’s side, and so there was this huge vacuum. And now as a 42 year old man, father of six kids, you know, I’ve coached a couple soccer teams and whatnot. I think men stepped into my lives not just because they saw potential, but because they saw a need. And you know, for me, I was just a kid. I was just a kid going about life. And these remarkable men, one after another, stepped into my life and really, gave to me both, you know, whether financially or through advice and wisdom or through presence or through just modeling for me. Think of early soccer coaches, you know, when I couldn’t afford a jersey for the club team or the, the bag and the coats and all the extra stuff stepping in. And I didn’t hear about that till much later. Real true mentors who walked alongside me through some rough patches, who have had a consistent presence in my life. And so I like to say that I’ve, I’ve really collected father figures, almost like action figures along the way, truly, and who all hold different places in my life and different bits of input. I can think of six, seven men who are genuinely like father figures to me and who have been there through thick and thin consistently. Guys like Dave Rasmussen or Kevin Kelly or Lance Charlish or Eric Arnold or Kevin Carroll. All men who I look up to. All men who, have had a significant impact on my life, and who I just would not be the man that I am today. I would not be the father that I am today without them really having a significant presence. And, you know, one of the things that I try and teach my kids is nobody gets anywhere meaningful without lots of help. And asking for help isn’t a weak thing. Asking for help isn’t a small thing. It’s a really big thing. And I love being able to consistently point to the 6 to 10, you know, folks in my life who have helped me get where I am, who’ve played a really significant role. And I’m thankful every day that those men have walked alongside me for as long as they have.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, you described it as a vacuum, and there’s others that step into that vacuum. And whether you think about them now looking back as the angels in your life or not, you know, they

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David Hirsch: have played a significant role and it’s great that you could recognize some of them by name. Here was one of them your, high school, young Life leader or not.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. One of them was my high school young life leader who, you know, I remember my very first Young Life meeting. I went up to him afterwards. I had never touched religion or God or been to church, none of it. I’d never even heard anything from the Bible. Very first time he gives this little, you know, talk at the end of Young Life Club about building your life on sand. And I went up to him, I was like, that’s me. Like, how do I learn more about this? And he was like, really? And I was like, yeah. Like. And literally we met weekly for, for years after that and. And yeah, a mentor, a friend, a father figure, like a brother and, and had a massive impact, on my life. I mean, I met my wife because he introduced us, that that’s, you know, how strong of an impact he’s had.

David Hirsch: Well, I think it would be fair to say that you took, more away from young life than the average person did, though.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, I did. It would be putting it lightly to say it changed the course of my life.

David Hirsch: Yeah. That’s fabulous. Thank you. So my recollection was you took a BA in Bible theology and Greek from Molten. No, well, university.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Noma University, which sadly, has just dissolved this last year after, I don’t know how many years, 50 plus years. Just tough being a small, private, biblical institution. But the best four years of my life. I knew I wasn’t going to go to college for a job or a piece of paper that was going to tell me I could get a certain kind of job. That was just never how I was built. And so I really decided I was going to go to college to form myself and to become a whole person and to explore my interests and to make connections and build friendships. And I think I was really successful. And that again, one of the best investments I ever made. I had the privilege of getting to work alongside and hire and co found and et cetera, businesses with individuals I went to school with and still some of the best folks that I know.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. So where did your career take you after graduation?

Jelani Memory: I like to think if my kids take this path that I’d be scared, but I think I’d be excited about it. I was three months from graduating with no plan but an idea of I would figure it out. And one of my friends, a guy named Kevin Russ, was taking photographs and selling them online of plants and bugs and people and selling stock photography and really creative work. And I thought, I love art. I haven’t gotten to do art in a long time. He’s doing that as a job. He makes enough to pay his bills. And so I thought, oh, I’ll try that. And I tried it for a little bit and I was like, I’m kind of good at this. Got my first camera kit a month before I graduated. A month later, I was paying all my bills, straight out of college with the camera. And I literally had to be like, I think this makes me a photographer. I had the good fortune not just of, you know, projects and selling stock photography, but got brought on by iStockphoto to evaluate other photographers. Photography, photographs. Again, this is three months in, but I had an artistic knack for it, and I’m a bit of a gearhead. Early adopter and started to pursue a freelance career in photo and then eventually video. So it was babies, weddings, senior portraits, stock photography, creative fun sports projects. Always leveling up, always creating some extra space in my sort of week to explore new bits of, of gear, new possibilities from a creative perspective. Wanted to do a project with Nike for a couple years and did a bunch of, like, two dozen free ones for brands and spec work. Just, eventually to have a portfolio that I could show. And eventually all the cameras could do video. I’ve always been into film. Why don’t I become a filmmaker? And so started to do work there. Did 12 months of projects, for free, until somebody eventually was like, how much do you charge? And I was like, this much. You know, happened to, have a fateful conversation with, like, another one of those father figures, mentors of mine, godfather to one of my kids. He had just bought a handful of iPod touches for his own kids, and he was, you know, doing sales, I think, for SAP at the time. I was freelance photographing and videographing things. And he said, you know, we’re both dads and we both have the same ideas around this. Let’s see if we can build a company together where we help families get the most out of technology instead of the worst. I was like, great. I know exactly what this product is, what it should be. you know, just, almost like, naive enough to think that I might be right. And he said, great. He goes, I found this wonderful developer down in California. Let’s build a company that was all the way back in 2012, and what would eventually become circle, three years later. So can we give parents

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Jelani Memory: a way to set time limits on devices so their kid’s not binging YouTube all night? Can we give them a way to pause the Internet for dinner time. Can we give them a way for it to work on every device, no matter what joins the network? All from a simple app from the Walt Disney Company. Reached out and said, hey, we think this looks pretty cool. Do you want to hop on a call? I was like, yep, nothing to lose at this point. and this wonderful design. Nate hopped on the phone guy from New Zealand and he said, you know, we’ve been passing around this video all day inside my department. He’s like, we love this. He’s like, I, I got my boss on the call. Do you want to chat with him? And in slides, you know, into the, the Google Meets this guy, Kyle Laughlin. And he’s like, look, we love this. We want to talk with you about buying it. Now, fast forward 18 months of negotiations. We strike a, brand partnership with them and launch in, gosh, 2016 with 125 articles to $7 million in sales that first year. And all of a sudden I’m like a tech startup entrepreneur, which was totally foreign. I was just like, I’m a photographer. Like, I take photos of things and I, you know, people somehow listen to me when it comes to this product stuff. But I was a dad and I could sort of see where the puck was setting with all of this technology stuff and realizing we’re going to need some tools as parents to kind of keep pace with it. Not to totally keep our kids out of it, but to help them manage through it. And I’m really proud to say that the tools and the features that we built, I’ve used Google’s latest tools, I’ve used Apple’s latest tools. I’ve used, Xfinity’s latest tools, T Mobile, sky. And I can tell you they’re all features that we built. They’re all, almost to a T. we weren’t able to capture the sort of the market value of that. Ah, but I’m glad that it’s sort of everywhere for free now available to families everywhere to help manage their content and time online.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, it’s like a roller coaster ride that you just described, from one perspective. And then has anybody ever told you that you’re like the Portland version of like Forrest Gump, Right? These things just sort of happen to you in your life.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, that’s really funny. I’ve never, I’ve never thought about it that way. But, yeah, the, the Portland version of Forrest Gump. I like that. I really like that.

David Hirsch: That’s a compliment, by the way. That is like one of my all time favorite movies.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, my wife laughs at me sometimes because I just have this perspective and abundance mindset that just sort of says it’s all going to work out, just keep going. And life in its mysterious way continues to give back in those ways. Or at least that I just, I just continue to believe not having a bad attitude about it is maybe the one thing that continues to help me through.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I love it.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: Well, let’s shift gears a little bit. I’m sort of curious to know a little bit more about your family. starting with how did you and Brandy meet?

Jelani Memory: So Brandy and I met through mutual, friends, Dave and Julie Rasmussen. Dave was my young life leader in high school. We just stayed in touch all the time. You know, I had gotten married, had a kid, and then got divorced. And, you know, Brandy had gone through the same thing, except for with four kids. And, you know, we had both felt pretty burned by our last marriages and some of the experiences we had there, but still wanted family, still wanted connection. And we were connected a year previous to going on our first date. and just the timing never quite worked out. She was either dating someone or I was dating someone. eventually the those stars aligned and we went on a first date. And I think by the second date, we sort of knew that this was gonna be a real thing. And then, gosh, two months later, we were engaged and four months later we were married. And she would ask me, early days, are you sure you really want to sign up for all these kids? And I was like, you have no idea. This is the best package deal you could ever imagine. All I’ve ever wanted to do was to be a dad of many kids and also realizing in this really special way that these kids were dealing with their own absent dad, you know, who was really struggling to be present in their lives in a meaningful way and understanding. I get to be that father figure that had stepped into my life in that vacuum

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Jelani Memory: in the Same way for these kids, not replacing their dad, but being a father figure, you know, to them. And, get to play the long game, which I’ve been, you know, experiencing nine years in, this wonderful long game of getting to be their dad and be that constant presence and be at the recitals and be at the soccer games and be at the theater performances and be there for those late night conversations and those early morning trips, you know, like, to be that person. And my wife and I are just the best team when it comes to, you know, really making sure we’re not only putting each other first, but also putting our family first.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thanks for sharing. So it’s the mine, hers. And that wasn’t enough because you had five between the two of you. You decided to have Solomon.

Jelani Memory: We decided to have Solomon, yeah. And, you know, a harrowing experience. I was like, I would love to have more kids. And she’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know. Like, can I do this again? You know, And I still remember the day she told me that she was pregnant. And look, it wasn’t a piece of cake. She, you know, midway through, we had a doctor’s appointment and the doctor’s, you are going to give birth if you don’t stop everything right now and do bed rest for the rest of this pregnancy.

David Hirsch: Oh, wow.

Jelani Memory: Really shocking for us. And there were a couple moments of, you know, going, are we going to give birth so severely premature that our son’s not going to survive? Thankfully, you know, she made it. And then our little guy made it far enough in the pregnancy to be healthy and whole and wonderful and. And it’s funny because all of our kids have such a different experience with family. Obviously, we’re one unit, but we’ve got one kid who goes back and forth to their mom’s house. We’ve got four kids who once upon a time went back and forth to their dad’s house every other weekend. And then it became three kids, and then it became two kids, and now it’s just one kid, because that one kid is the only one who’ll still tolerate that relationship with his dad. But then we’ve got Solomon, who’s just just kicking it at home, right, because his two parents live there. And, you know, it’s funny because we, are always really straightforward about trying to explain family. And, you know, at one point is, you know, someone was like, well, is. Is. Is he my dad, too? No, he’s their dad. Right. And trying to make sense of those structures. But, there’s a real beauty to the, to the mess and the, complicated structure of it all to realize, like, kids can still thrive context and kids still have the same needs and kids really crave that safe place that they call home and those safe people they can talk to that affirm them and their. And who they are and their identities and that, you know, it’s very much always on my wife and I’s mind how we can provide that for our kids.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thanks for sharing. So I’m sort of curious, know, prior to having children, did you or Brandy have any connection to the world of disability or special needs needs?

Jelani Memory: No, no, not, not really at all. I, I’d consider myself, you know, a total novice and with tons of naivete when it came to disability. It’s been a really wonderful learning curve as, she and I have both grown in our understanding and awareness and, you know, just inclusive thinking and language and, you know, strategies and ability to relate with our kids and also others with disabilities.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, there is a pretty steep learning curve and, sometimes it, plateaus and then it just keeps going up. Like you think you’re at the mountaintop and you realize, hey, I’m still in the foothills. And, I’m sort of curious to know what the kiddos diagnoses are and how do they come about.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, so a couple kids diagnosed with ADHD, and that really came out of us, trying to make sense of how they were processing certain moments and certain events. There would just be times where we couldn’t make sense of why they were having a hard time with something or why something felt really difficult or emotional. And, it was through getting that diagnosis of going, oh, they’re not looking at things or perceiving things or understanding them in the way that we are, and we should stop treating it like they are or expecting them to. This isn’t about looking down on them or thinking that they’re less than. This is just going, actually, we need to understand them better instead of them trying to make them understand us better. And then, you know, for a kiddo, or son with scoliosis that, you know, heartbreakingly we just discovered. It just took a while to discover what was going on. There was a year’s worth of back pain and issues until eventually, you know, his spine had really curved pretty significantly. Me. It’s been a journey. You know, you’ve got a teenager who wants to do all the things right.

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Jelani Memory: Theater, band, school, all of it. And sometimes it’s just the pain is too much. And I am constantly reminded to take my own advice and listen to my kids, like, really listen to them. I think part of being a parent is trying to manage and control and provide and do all those things for your kids. And a lot of times your kids are sitting there in plain sight telling you exactly what you need to hear to help them and love them and care for them, especially with our kids who are differently abled and. And for me to just slow down and not need to get out the door so quick or get that thing done or get to the next thing or get, you know, some idea or rule listen to and just go, what is my kid, telling me? And can I just hear that them and then try and take an action after that based on what they’ve told me? That’s really something my kids have taught me.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, if I could paraphrase that, it’s like tuning in.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And you have to make sure that, you’re not just physically present, but, that you’re sort of invested emotionally and, maybe pausing before you come to a conclusion about the assessment. Like, it’s not the snap, you know, decision. Like, you know, I think I got this right. You know, Malcolm Gladwell on his book Blink, Right. We make these snap decisions in our lives, and, you know, many times they’re accurate. But as it relates to what we’re talking about, you know, raising a child, you know, I think that there’s. I don’t want to say an exception, but, you know, you have to train yourself.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Not to come to that history, decision, and then, you know, pivot, you know, with what you think is going on. And, I think that’s not something you can read a book about, but that’s something that, you know, it’s like an exercise. Right. You have to build up to something. Right. You’re. You’re gaining more insights and you’re developing that skill. it’s, it’s hard to describe, but thank you.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: I’m thinking about, fears. What were some of the fears, when you learned about the ADHD or the scoliosis or other things that, you know, your kids, this large family of yours has.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. I think, you know, some of the common ones of what does this mean for the rest of our lives as a family? What does this mean for them? How will it impact them or affect them? And then I think, you know, the, the other fear, if I’m being totally honest, is like, can I Change in the ways that I need to. To accommodate them, to love them, to see them, to understand them in the way that they really, truly need to be understood. And I think if any parents, being honest, that’s. That’s an ongoing thing. And it has nothing to do with how much you love your children. It has everything to do with really letting them dictate the terms of how their perceived and how they’re seen, how they’re known, instead of seeing them as the same kid you saw them when they were three years old. Right. Lovable, huggable and cozy and cute and cuddly and all those things, but really letting them be who they are as they grow and change, you know, I still look. It’s still ongoing. My advice to myself has really been to. To try and do less. When I say do less, part of it is just like you just pulling back and letting my kids dictate terms more, which really, I think just means doing less. So my wife will laugh because anytime the kids ask me to drive them somewhere, I just say yes. It’s like it doesn’t matter how far does if I’m even in the middle of my workday. It’s like, sure. Like, because it’s a way for them to hold sway and power and have agency and even agency over my time. And it’s a way that I can give back to them. That’s really simple. It’s the way that I think my mom gave back to us kids. She was raising us. But it almost seems like if I want to do a better job as a parent, I should be doing more. Whereas that, that less. That pullback often provides more benefits both for me and for the kids.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, you know, as your kids get older and you’re. You have a lot of teenagers, if you keep saying no to them, you know about things, they might stop asking you. Yep, right. That’s the way I think about. About it. And you want to air on the side of engaging. And, you know, we’re each getting a little bit older. We’re not as, you know, flexible or as energetic as we might have been in our youth. but you want to stay engaged. Right. And I’m in denial about my age. I’m going to be 65 this year. And if one of my kids wants to go skydiving or bungee jumping or do a marathon, you know, I’m gonna try to figure out how to get that done. Done.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And, I hope that they appreciate that. Right. That it’s not just like you said, you know, just sort of. They take it for granted almost. Right. That everybody’s like that. It’s just a matter of me trying to stay engaged, being present.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Part of that overcompensation, I think that we were talking

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David Hirsch: about earlier.

Jelani Memory: Yeah, yeah. And I have this huge belief that like the, the benefits are not always equally distributed in terms of volume or in time. Some of the seeds that I planted years ago, nine years ago, when I first met my new four step kids are now coming to fruition. I’m now seeing the benefits of them and I think that’s true. You know, eventually kids get older and go, wow, I had a great childhood because I had a really great dad who was there. They might have hated the involvement as much as in their business as you are, but then they look back and they go, wow, what a gift, what a blessing. And that pays off later. And I think about that engagement. Yeah. I mean all you want with adult children is you just want you to go like, hey, do I still get to be there for those big moments? Right? It’s still, do you still want me there, present? Do you still care about what I have to say and do I still get to spend time with you? And you know, for them it’s almost like they’ll really see the value of that maybe when you’re gone. Right. Later on, boys in the moment, it just is normal to them and it should be normal to them. Whereas for you it’s this massive gift. Right. It’s something that. It’s like whatever I can do to hold this place, my kid’s life, I’ll do. And there’s something, something. I don’t know, there’s something special about that where instead of generational trauma, it creates generational healing, I suppose, where, where then your kids get to visit upon the young people in their life, whether it’s their own kids or nieces and nephews or you know, young people that they’re pouring into, that they’re visiting upon them those gifts that you gave them. Right. As opposed to the other way around. That sort of the harming and the deleterious effects that happen from when, when parents are causing negative effects or absent or etc.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I think part of that too is hopefully we’ll be around, but you never know that when our kids become parents themselves, they’ll have a better appreciation, understanding about, you know, what their upbringing was all about.

Jelani Memory: Yeah.

David Hirsch: You know, they know that they’ve got it pretty well. I mean they’re not ignorant to that, but it’s sort of like a relative thing. And I don’t mean like relativism, you know, cousins and aunts, uncles, but, you know, it’s all relative to, you know, your own experience. So, anyway, thanks for sharing. Out of curiosity, have there been any supporting organizations that, we should give a shout out to that, one or more of your kids have benefited from or your family has benefited from, from as a result of some of these, different abilities?

Jelani Memory: Yeah, well, I, I, I just say in general, one, is Shriners. they’ve been amazing for a kiddo with scoliosis. and then the other organization, you know, because I have two trans kids, is the Trevor Project. they’ve just been, like, what an incredible resource, for, for young people. Like, I cannot say enough good things about them.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, I’ll make a special effort to include information about both of those in the show notes. It’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up. So, I want to go back to this, part of the introduction that I made, and there was something called a kids book about racism. And I’m wondering what was the impetus for creating that book and what was your expectation early on?

Jelani Memory: Yeah, talk about a small idea that had a big impact. The small idea was, I’ve got four white step kids and two black biological kids. How I make sure that they always feel comfortable being able to ask me questions and talk about race, culture, color, and of course, racism. What do I do to do that? That I thought, gosh, I’ve always wanted to write a book. And there’s, there’s something about a third thing. There’s something sort of cozy about the invitation of a children’s book. So I thought, I’ll just make a children’s book for them. You know, my, my kids were, you know, ranging between a few months old all the way up to, I think 13 at the time, or 13 or 14. And I thought, okay, I’ll make this book. And at least it’ll be a symbol to go, hey, if there’s a children’s book about, it’s always cool to talk with me about it and ask me questions or thoughts or share your feelings or your experiences. And very specifically for my black and brown kids, I wanted them to know what they might experience. And for my white kids, I just didn’t want them to be that kid in the class who was saying that thing, doing that thing. It just felt like my job as a dad to help teach them that. And so I literally, I write it in a week, I design it in a week because I’m savvy with InDesign. And then I found a print on demand printer, blurb.com and printed out one copy. And my kids had the most extraordinary response. Their very first response was to productize it. And what I watched in them was it unlocked

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Jelani Memory: all these other important conversations and things that they were thinking about that were really heavy and important and tough to talk about. And I like to say that like vulnerabilities can take contagious. And so by me being vulnerable, it was all of a sudden license for them to be vulnerable, to open up those spaces and places. And so immediately they started to go, well, you could do a kids book about this and a kid’s book about this and a kid’s book about this. And I thought, never crossed my mind. Like it never crossed my mind. This is a project for you guys. I was leading product at Circle at the time as a co founder, but just could not let go of this kids book thing that my kids had really sparked for me. I showed the book to a handful of adults and their immediate response was, can I take this home and read this to my kid? I had no idea how to talk about this with my kid, but your book might help. After enough of those experiences, I thought, okay, I don’t have time to start a children’s book company. I’m already running another one. But if I did, what books would we make? And I sat down for maybe 20 minutes, minutes and had a list well over a hundred. And I thought I have to stop because I keep going because there are so many tough conversations you’ve got to have with your kids. And all of them feel like they happen too early or have to happen too early. All of them feel like I am under equipped to have them. And all of them feel like I’m doing a massive disservice to my children if I do not have these conversations. So I thought, is there a company that makes books that are candid and direct and not wrapped in some fanciful fiction based story, but something that just tells kids what’s up about a topic in a developmentally appropriate way? And I thought, ah, not really. These topics feel impossible to commercially work for kids. Like there’s just like a thousand reasons why this didn’t work. And I thought maybe that’s the reason why it will work. Sort of competition of none, right? Sort of this total white blank space. and so I had A conversation with the board and my co founders at Circle and said I’m ready for my next thing. And it’s this kids book company and, and I think there’s just some real good that I can do here. And I think I’m the only one sort of crazy enough to do it. Conversation went really well. They sent me off my way. Took me nine months to construct how to create a publisher, build printing relationships, distribution, build a team, all the good things. Raised a little bit of capital. Launched, you know, in 2019, literally almost a year to date, after I’d shown my kids that very first book, 12 titles initially, kids book about money, kids a book about feminism, kids book about cancer, creativity, of course, racism, failure. And just literally from day one it worked. Parents, teachers, therapists, doctors, lawyers, you name it, showed up to get these books for some young person in their life who they thought this is a really important conversation to start. And then the floodgates opened with authors reaching out. Somehow, one of our books had made it to Billie Jean King, you know, the famed tennis player. And she said, I want to do a book. And somehow her people got a hold of me and I said yes, of course. And really it’s just been the same story these last six years as I’ve been able to lead. The company is trying to tell challenging, empowering and important stories for kids. We like to say we’re selling the thing that happens after you read the book, not the book itself. And all of a sudden the parents fear is gone. They’re not as worried about the conversation anymore and they’re just amazed at how engaged their kid is with this topic that seemed impossible. And we’ve got books on Alzheimer’s, addiction, death, love, imagination. I mean we’ve covered the gamut. We’ve been able to collect this amazing group of some celebrities, some teachers, some just parents, some kids to be voices in this 200 plus book collection that I’m really proud to say, last year, last summer was acquired by Penguin Random House. and it’s where I get to continue to lead the charge growing up. The collection.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, it’s an amazing story. Thank you for sharing. And I think the brilliance in it wasn’t that, oh, you’ve got all the information, you’re the author of all these books. But it sort of incorporated dozens and dozens, maybe well over a hundred different authors now. And the only one that I had done some research on that you didn’t mention was on Juneteenth with Garrison Hayes. So you do cover a lot of ground, a lot of, you know, like you said, tough, to have conversations. And I’m, hoping from your lips to God’s ears, that’ll continue to flourish.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. Thank you.

David Hirsch: So, you do have a little podcast experience too. And there’s a podcast called Pitch Black.

Stephen Green: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Pitch

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Stephen Green: Black podcast. I am your host, Stephen Green, founder of Pitch Black. And today we have a special segment, where you get to see my alter ego, partner in crime, truth teller, creative savant. Jelani Memory joins us on the show.

Jelani Memory: What’s up? That’s a kind intro, man. Creative savant. I’ll take it, I’ll take it.

David Hirsch: Where’d that idea come from? And, how is that? Correct grown.

Jelani Memory: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I can’t take ownership over that idea that I’ve been lucky, enough to get involved and help. Pitch Black was started over a decade ago by Stephen Green here in Portland, Oregon. Started in a pub, small pitch competition for black entrepreneurs. That was really a celebration. It was how do we get black entrepreneurs together pitching their ideas and how do we get them cash at the end of it? It’s now had 15 plus events. every event is always sold out. You know, almost 100 entrepreneurs have pitched. Over $700,000 has been given to them scot free, no equity in return. And everybody who goes on stage to pitch to Pitch Black event gets cash no matter what. The audience always votes. So it’s this fun sort of crowd pleaser. And you know, now I want to expand into multiple cities and continue to spread it out and dive into more media niches. You know, pitch Black design, continue Pitch Black food, Pitch Black showcase, which is the main event, can we get into sneakers, can we get into apparel, can we get into tech and AI? All with the idea of, showcasing the amazing brilliance that exists out there from black entrepreneurs and just giving putting a spotlight on it.

David Hirsch: Very clear thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I’m thinking about advice and if you could offer a parent, or specifically a dad, some advice about accepting children with differences, what would that be?

Jelani Memory: I, I’d say it’s probably threefold. Is, is one, is, is remember they’re just kids. And in that I would say trying to remember what it was like when you were a kid is you were just you and, and whether you were tall or short or fast or whether you were the best at reading in class or whether you had the coolest penmanship or whatever that thing was like, like kids don’t get to choose how they are. They just are. And, and every kid wants to be loved as they are and seen as they are and not. Not pushed or forced any direction to then sort of earn some sense of acceptance or love. And the last piece of advice is, one that I’ve already given is, is listen to your kids. They will tell you everything you need to hear. When something hurts or when something’s uncomfortable, or when something doesn’t work for them, or when something is feels like too much. When something feels patronizing, they can tell you, but they will stop telling you if you don’t ever listen to them. They will learn to tell you the thing you want to hear instead of the thing they really need to tell you. And you know, even this morning, my, my son just his lid because he really wanted to play on my iPad instead of his iPad. But he’s seven and we’re trying to get him ready for school again, trying to slow down the screens and get him sort of adjusted. So he slammed the door, you know, runs in his room, all sorts of things. And I, I could get really mad as a dad, could go, this is not the way you behave and you don’t say those things or do those things or we don’t slam doors in our house. But I went in there and I just, I just held him and I just gave him a hug and I said, I’m really proud of you, buddy. I know you’re having really big feelings. And I can even feel the emotion, you know, coming on now. And he burst into tears and he was, it was all he needed. It was, all he needed was the recognition that his feelings were too big and he didn’t know where to put them or what to do with them. And I think, you know, look for differently abled kids or not, it’s really about that recognition of seeing them for who they are instead of, you know, something that they’re not. Which really comes down to really trying to listen to what they’re trying to tell you. However they communicate back to you, you know.

David Hirsch: You could be coming a dead whisperer, you know. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Why is it that you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Jelani Memory: I just think the work never stops and it’s so important to be good at this. I’m not a perfect dad. Like, I screw up all the time and one of my claims of fame is like, I get to apologize to my kids all the time for all the ways that I screw up Right. It really does take a village and nobody gets anywhere, you know, important with doing it alone. It takes help. And, I’ve made enough mistakes to be able to offer enough help for those other dads who might m be making those same mistakes.

David Hirsch: We’re thrilled to have you. Thank you for being part of the network. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Jelani Memory: No, just thank you for the work that you’re doing and starting these conversations and continuing to do it. I know it’s not your bread and butter and you’re not your main thing and I applaud you all the more for that because it really is important work.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you. If

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David Hirsch: somebody wants to learn more about the kid book company, the Pitch Black, podcast and Pitch Black iterations or to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

Jelani Memory: Yeah, well, I’m just about on every social @JelaniMemory, you know, Instagram, Facebook, etc. And then pitchblack.org. That’s where you can learn all about Pitch Black in terms of the events and the podcast. AKidsCo.com is where you can find the kids books or just like, you know, literally type the kids book about into any search engine and immediately you’re going to be flooded with all of the results of all of our books, as they’re spread across, every book retailer and are distributed by PEG and Random House. So, it’s kind of, kind of hard to miss. We gamed the SEO there, so we knew what we were doing, but that’s where you can find me.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include as much of that information in the show notes as possible possible, so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up. Jelani, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Jelani is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org. Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast to help you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax actable contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Jelani, thanks again.

Jelani Memory: Thanks.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david@21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

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