404 – Tom Chibucos of Chicago, A Manager of Speech-Language Pathology & Audiology Services, Father Of Two Including One w ASD

Transcript:

David Hirsch: Being a mentor can be incredibly rewarding

Tom Chibucos: What else is possibly more rewarding than holding somebody’s hand, whether figuratively or literally, and helping them walk a journey that they’re not sure about, that they don’t know if they can do? And being a mentor, I want to say, you can do this. And I’m here to show you how there’s probably nothing more rewarding than that.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, Tom Chebucas, a manager of speech, language pathology and audiology at Chicago Public Schools. Tom is married to Michelle and has two children, including Vincent, 9, who is non verbal and on the autism spectrum. And we’ll hear Tom’s story on this special Father’s Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Tom Couch: Dad to dad, you’re not on your own. We walk this road together, heart and whole.

David Hirsch: Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group is free for the first 30 days

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the.

David Hirsch: Special Fathers Network dad and Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group experience.

David Hirsch: Is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs, meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. The Mastermind group is free for the first 30 days. Stop trying to figure out things on your own. I invite you to join one of the existing Special Fathers Network Mastermind groups. You’ll meet some extraordinary dads, exchange a lot of best practices, and recharge your.

David Hirsch: Fatherhood battery for the journey ahead.

David Hirsch: It might just transform your life like it’s done for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or Simply go to, 21st.

Tom Couch: Centurydads.Org through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247365.

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen to this conversation between Tom Chiboukis and David Hirsch.

Tom Chebucas is a father of two, including a son on autism

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Tom Chebucas of Chicago, Illinois, who’s a related service provider manager in speech language pathology and audiology services at Chicago Public Schools and father of two, including a son on the autism spectrum. Tom, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Tom Chibucos: It’s absolutely my pleasure, David, and thank you for having me and for doing over 400 of these and for connecting people and providing mentor mentee relationships and all that you do. so thank you as well.

David Hirsch: You and your wife Michelle have been married for 20 years and are the proud parents of two children, Sylvie, 10, and Vincent, 9, who is non verbal and on the autism Spectrum. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Tom Chibucos: Yep, sounds good. I was born in Lansing, Michigan to my hero of a dad who was working on his doctorate that predates my memory. I grew up in DeKalb, Illinois. From an early age on, my father did most of the parenting duties, if not all by himself. Our family was abandoned by our biological mother when I was six years old. So when I say that my dad is my hero, I mean that with my entire heart, my entire whole being. So he raised us. Eventually he remarried to a wonderful woman named Pam, who was, came in to be my stepmother, when I was about 12 years old. And she took over parenting duties in an amazing capacity. And she raised me and my biological brother and sister and then they eventually went on to have another child who is my sister as well.

David Hirsch: Well, sorry to hear about your biological mother stepping out if you will. But it’s nice that you did have a, second mama. Stepmom, you know, played an influential role in your life.

David Hirsch: I can’t imagine what that would have been like, your dad dating somebody with three young kids and you know, getting her to think, oh, this is what I want to sign up for.

Tom Chibucos: And it was the 70s, I remember a few dates. And then, then he found his, his perfect, perfect match eventually.

David Hirsch: That’s wonderful. So, out of curiosity, what did your dad do for a living?

Tom Chibucos: He was the first of his family, like many people in that generation, to go to college, first to get a bachelor’s degree, first to get a PhD. So he started off in child psychology, child development. He went on to do some pretty important work and research in the area of child abuse and neglect. Received an ACE Fellowship from the American University in Washington D.C. so we lived out there for a few years and then eventually went from being a, researcher to a professor and then into administration at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. He became a chair of his department. So he was in higher education for his entire adult life.

David Hirsch: Quite impressive. And how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Tom Chibucos: Extremely close.

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Tom Chibucos: Unfortunately, he made me a Cubs fan at an early age, providing years of torture, even up until he passed away, a few years ago, about a little over three years ago. He was one of my closest confidants and best friends. We talked five days a week by phone and really tried to make an effort to get together on a regular basis. And he was a wonderful man.

David Hirsch: He sounds like a stand up guy. And he did live long enough to see the Cubs win the World Series.

Tom Chibucos: He did. He did. I will never forget that celebration. Yeah, it was incredible. So happy for that.

David Hirsch: So when you think about takeaways from your dad, lessons learned, what comes.

Tom Chibucos: To mind, above all else, ethics. Behaving in a moral and responsible way at all times. You know, people, people say there’s an adage about dance, like no one’s watching. My dad was always about dancing, like everyone’s watching. You know, he was a very ethical, driven. He was driven by hard work, but he placed his family above all else. And I think the number one lesson that I, I have learned as an adult was that family is first. Always, always family first. And friendships as well. Yep.

David Hirsch: Well, those are some important lessons. What I heard you say is he had a great work ethic, very ethical person. Right. He had his priorities in place, family, friends. and it sounds like he was very accomplished from a work standpoint, too, so. Sounded like a very well rounded person. Sorry you lost him a relatively early age.

Tom Chibucos: Yeah, well, as one of his favorite expressions was, we’re all heading to the same place, son, so enjoy the ride.

David Hirsch: No one’s figured out how to get out alive, Right?

You got a bachelor’s degree in Communications from Bowling Green State University

So my recollection was you, got a bachelor’s degree from Bowling Green State University and then went on to get a master’s degree in Communications from St. Xavier University. And I’m wondering, where did you see your career taking you?

Tom Chibucos: So I always knew, you know, I always knew I wanted to be in the helping professions. I just couldn’t really put my finger on it. I did not want to take after my father and become a professor. I knew that was not my jam, if you will. You know, I dabbled in some ideas in the therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy. And as it turns out, my aunt is a speech language pathologist. She suggested that I take an Intro to Communication sciences and Disorders class at Bowling Green. so I did. And, you know, at first it was, I thought it was, it was neat. But as a 20, you know, early 20, something like, how do you decide these, these major life choices? But really when I had my first clinical experience with a, with a little boy and his parents, and we were working on some, some language and speech sounds, and he had a couple breakthroughs, and parents, were in the clinical room and they just, they thanked me profusely. And here I’m just a student, I’m not even a professional SLP at this point. And it was very rewarding. And I decided I was going to go full speed ahead.

David Hirsch: And the rest is history from a career standpoint.

You are manager of speech, language pathology and audiology at Chicago Public Schools

I know that, you are a co founder of something called Pediatric Therapy Network in Chicago.

David Hirsch: What type of business was that and what’s your role today?

Tom Chibucos: So we provide pediatric speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy services to a, pretty young patient population in their homes and communities. So we don’t have a physical clinic. So we, we go to families houses, we go to playgrounds and daycares and swimming pools. Wherever families feel that added support would be needed is where PTN shows up.

David Hirsch: Good to hear. so what is it that you do as a related service provider? Manager of speech, language pathology and audiology at Chicago Public Schools.

Tom Chibucos: Okay. I think the bigger question is what don’t I do? But it’s a big job and I’m loving every second of it. It’s a full time job with central office at Chicago Public Schools. You know, first and foremost, one of my priorities as an RSP manager is to make sure that all children with IEPs are receiving their appropriate speech and language minutes from the SLPs that are out in the school. That’s one of my biggest responsibilities. And it’s quite a challenge. But our chief of the office for students with disabilities has done an incredible job adding more SLPs and really refining the mission and vision of CPS, OSD. And things are heading in an incredible, amazing, beautiful direction right now. Service providers and CPs.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for sharing.

How did you and Michelle meet? So it’s an interesting story

So I’m sort of curious now. How did you and Michelle meet?

Tom Chibucos: So it’s an interesting thing. So we actually both started our college careers at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois. She was actually her friend Circle involved many people that I grew up with. she was just there visiting as a student and I was there as a

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Tom Chibucos: resident. But we never crossed paths ever. Until Chicago. I moved here in 1996 after getting a bachelor’s degree from Bowling Green State University. And I worked as a speech assistant at Chicago public schools from 1996 to 1997. And I was about to start graduate school at St. Xavier University on the south side and I needed a little bit of income. So I asked one of my neighbors who lived in my building if the pet store up the street where she worked was hiring. She said they were. I showed up in a full suit and tie. Michelle was at the counter. She said, what are you here for? And I said, I’m here to apply for a job. I asked her out for drinks that very week and I quit like a week later. And as you said earlier, the rest is history.

David Hirsch: We’ve been.

David Hirsch: Well, that’s a unique story. Not one that I’ve heard before, but I guess, you took more away from that pet store experience than, most customers or employees, for that matter.

Tom Chibucos: That’s right. She was working in the fish section, and I was stocking shelves with cat litter and such.

David Hirsch: There you go. Well, thanks for sharing.

Your son was diagnosed with autism at age seven, but wasn’t formally diagnosed

So let’s talk about, special needs, first on a personal level, and then perhaps beyond. And, prior to having children, did you or Michelle have any direct connection to the world of disability or special needs?

Tom Chibucos: Yeah, I mean, as a speech language pathologist, a full SLP with certificate of clinical competence from the American Speech Language Hearing Association, I have been working with a pediatric population since the year 1999, essentially. So I’ve worked with hundreds, if not thousands of families who have children and loved ones who are autistic or on the autism spectrum. So I have been working with, you know, students and children in the autism community for a couple of decades prior to even having children. Michelle and I got started really late to the parenting game. and I was 43 when we had our first child, Sylvie, who’s just the apple of my eye. And then I was 45 when Vincent came along, who is the other apple of my eye. I knew, having worked with many, many families who have children with autism or autistic children. However, you like to say that I knew very early on that my son had some developmental milestones that were not being reached that would indicate the possibility of going on to be autistic or to receive an autism diagnosis. I knew prior to him being one, year of age, quite honestly.

David Hirsch: So my recollection was that he wasn’t diagnosed officially until he was about age seven. And I’m wondering between one and seven, what were you thinking or what was the thought process?

Tom Chibucos: Yeah, my thought process as a speech language pathologist and as an. And having a lot of colleagues who are OTs or occupational therapists and physical therapists was basically that a diagnosis would not change his treatment protocol or his treatment strategies. So at that time, I just didn’t think a formal. Like, I knew he was autistic, but I didn’t think a formal diagnosis would really change anything at that time. So around when he was seven is when we really wanted to get the formal diagnosis. But it was more. It was more for practical purposes in navigating, you know, insurance reimbursements and justification and stuff like that. So looking back, I don’t think an autism diagnosis at the age of one or two or even three would have changed anything that we did.

Some parents are concerned about labeling their kids, and I’m wondering

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, some parents are concerned about labeling their kids, and I’m wondering if that was at all consideration in your own situation.

Tom Chibucos: Not for me. I have a lot of friends and colleagues who are adults who are autistic, and most of them refer to themselves as autistic versus a person with autism. and nothing about having a label or a diagnosis of autism was intimidating to me in no way, shape or form. I knew it would be very consequential insofar as the types of supports and services that he would need throughout his life, both therapeutically and financially and legally and things like this. So I kept that all in focus. But as a one year old to a six year old, I wasn’t scared or intimidated by a diagnosis really at all. Once we did it, it was no surprise. We went to see a neuropsychologist and they said, yeah, your son’s autism level three. And I was like, yeah, okay. You know that.

David Hirsch: Okay, thank you very much.

Fathers Network is asking dads to help gather research on special needs

So, I’m sort of curious to know, was there some meaningful advice that you got early on, either in your career or as a parent for that matter, that helped put the situation in perspective?

Tom Chibucos: you know, I think just understanding that children with autism are as unique

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Tom Chibucos: as you and I are, and there’s no bucket or blanket traits or characteristics that define somebody with autism. Of course, there’s things that help us come to a diagnosis. You know, nobody would challenge that. But children with autism, adults with autism, are no different than you and I. they just have a diagnosis or they’re autistic. Pretty straightforward. So I think early on I just decided that I was going to love and adore and worship and treat my son just like I would treat my m. Daughter and not treat him any differently. To answer your question, at some point somebody told me, never assume incompetence. And I think that message has stuck with me more than any other message. Never assume that your child cannot do something. And I think that’s been very beneficial for our entire family and probably anyone who’s out there listening.

David Hirsch: I think this message stated in a favorable way, is assume competence.

Tom Chibucos: Assume competence. Yeah. That’s great, right? Same things, stated a little differently. Yeah, Yeah, I completely agree with that. Assume competence. He surprises us every single day, multiple times per day, with his competence, with the things he can do that probably people assume he can’t do.

David Hirsch: Well, I think that’s beautiful.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you.

Parenting a child with autism is a roller coaster, right

Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: And not to focus on the negative, but, what have been some of the biggest challenges that you’ve related from a parenting perspective?

Tom Chibucos: You know, parenting somebody like Vincent is. It’s a roller coaster. I don’t want to take anything away from any, any other parent who’s listening. Parenting typically developing children, for lack of a better word right now is, is also a roller coaster. Like, I get that, I get that. I think the lows are probably much lower and the highs are probably celebrated much more. When your 9 year old decides he’s gonna poop in the toilet for the first time in months. That’s a big, that’s a big deal. That’s a really big deal. So, you know, I think parenting a child with autism, an autistic child, is, it’s just a, it’s just like any other child. It’s just, it’s a roller coaster. But I would say maybe the extremes are a little bit bigger. We have what I like to call family meltdowns. People say children with autism can have meltdowns. I like to say we have family meltdowns because it really causes like a ripple, a ripple in the whole dynamic of the family. it causes everybody to sort of lose their marbles for as long as it lasts. But eventually we come back, you know, we circle back and he resumes showing us all the amazing things he can do.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, I love it. I wish there was like a meter that you’d have, right. Be able to determine when one of these meltdowns was going to occur. Right. That there’s some intervention or something that you could be doing to address the storm before it hits.

Tom Chibucos: You know, when you live with an autistic child, you definitely learn their rhythms and their flows and you, and you really start to understand some of the things that can cause disruption to their, I guess I’ll just call it regulation. And so you start anticipating some of those things and you try to head him off at the pass, right? You see him getting upset about something and you try to make it so that he doesn’t have a full on Meltdown. But then there’s some things that you just can’t. I can’t give him everything that he wants or sees in a given moment. He tends to perseverate. If he, if he wants something, he’s going to get that thing. And if he doesn’t get that thing, he’s going to completely melt down. And that could take place while walking on the street, take place while in our home or in a restaurant. So I think really trying to learn his, his rhythm and really pay close and deep attention to what is leading up to some dysregulation, for lack of a better word. And then really trying to come at that on the front side instead of dealing on the back end, which is always 10 times more challenging, is dealing, trying to get him to settle down. It’s a real bear. It’s really tough. But you know, we have to be patient.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I think that’s one of the most important aspects is exercising, patience. And I don’t think that it just applies to raising an atypical child. It could be a typical child for that matter. You know, as, adults, we can get sort of short tempered. Right. You know, there’s an expectation that, hey, you know, this shouldn’t take this, you know, amount of time. Right. And not make the adjustment.

The biggest help and support to his development has been the Chicago Public Schools

So I’m thinking about supporting organizations. I’m wondering what comes to mind that, either Vincent’s relied on or your family’s relied on.

Tom Chibucos: The biggest help and support to his development has been the Chicago Public Schools and the amazing and beautiful teachers and sikas and aides that he has had in his classroom and the SLPs and the OTs and the music teachers and the art teachers. So I really give kudos and props to the teachers at CPS and the related service providers and everybody involved in his care and of course all the therapists that we’ve had along the way in clinics and then just having a loving and supportive environment at home. And you know, his sister is incredible. she’s really helpful with him. She can read him perhaps better than Michelle and I. She knows when things are going well and when they’re about to. Not.

David Hirsch: Maybe she’s your meter.

Tom Chibucos: She could be the meter. She could be the meter. Yeah, I like that.

David, what advice do you have for parents with autistic children

David Hirsch: I’m, thinking about advice now and I’m wondering what advice you can share with parents specifically dad, if they find themselves, in a similar situation with a child that they know either might be autistic, pre diagnosis or having a formal diagnosis for that matter.

Tom Chibucos: Yeah, I Would say, David, that the biggest thing is to understand, whatever is happening at the moment, it’s just a snapshot and it’s going to change. So it’s really easy to get overburdened and feel like something that’s happening negatively right now is going to last forever. And I’ll give you an example. my son used to flush toys down the toilet.

David Hirsch: Sorry to laugh.

Tom Chibucos: No, no, I laugh about it in retrospect all the time. So he goes through these stages. You know, I’ve spent thousands of dollars on plumbers. I went and I bought an industrial sized snake. I got toilet seat protectors that you use for toddlers and infants. And eventually that went away and he doesn’t do it anymore. And I think the take home message that I’m trying to convey is whatever’s happening right now doesn’t mean that’s going to be happening tomorrow. There’s going to be progress, there’s going to be improvements, there’s going to be amazing parts of your journey that you will remember forever. There’s going to be celebrations for the silliest stuff, you know, the silliest things. And it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. There’s a lot of extremely challenging parts. But my take home message would be don’t give up. Always assume competence like we talked about and really go out of your way. And this is where my heart really breaks for families who don’t necessarily have resources such as good insurance. Don’t ever give up looking for services. Your related service providers, your speech therapists, your OTs, your developmental therapist, your physical therapist, your social workers, your teachers, like they’re all rowing in the same direction. They’re all trying to get your child to keep making meaningful improvements and gains. So I would say don’t give up. Don’t ever give up. Keep pushing, keep fighting.

David Hirsch: Yep, it sounds like a Winston Churchill type of experience. Thank you.

Tom Chibucos: Yeah.

David is a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network

David Hirsch: So why have you agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Tom Chibucos: Because it’s. There’s some very dark thoughts that can creep into your head when you’re on this journey. You know, I. Any of my experiences that I could share with somebody who’s newer to the journey. I just can’t think of anything more rewarding than that. Like what else is possibly more rewarding than holding somebody’s hand, whether figuratively or literally, and helping them walk a journey that they’re not sure about, that they don’t know if they can do. And being a mentor, I want to say you can do this. And I’m here to show you how. And that’s. To me, that’s. There’s probably nothing more rewarding than that.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, you’ve, said it better than I think most I’ve heard, and we’re thrilled to have you. Thank you so much for being involved in the network.

Tom Chibucos: Thank you. David.

Special Father Fathers Network is a mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs

David Hirsch: Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Tom Chibucos: Can I just give a few thank yous? if that’s okay. I just want to thank my wife, Michelle, who’s an incredible mom, my daughter Sylvie, my son Vincent, my

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Tom Chibucos: mom, Pamela, Tina Copeland, the social worker, my business partner, Tristan Key, who’s just an incredible human being, and all of my fellow related service providers and fellow RSP managers at Chicago Public Schools. I just want to thank you all for the work that you do. and David, I want to thank you for just being on this mission and helping people and recruiting people to join the mission, because I didn’t even know this was here, and now I do, and I’m better off for it.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, that’s very kind of you. I was going to say, let’s give a special shout out to our friends at Children and Family Connections Number nine, because we put on this event, back in, August, and I think it was Tina who attended that event and was the one that introduced, the two of us.

Tom Chibucos: Tina is an incredible human being, an incredible friend, and just the best licensed clinical social worker you could ever imagine.

David Hirsch: Okay, well, I hope to meet her someday as well then. If somebody wants to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

Tom Chibucos: You could just send me an email. Tomchebucas gmail.com T O M C H I B U c o s gmail.com.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes. It’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to reach you. M. Tom, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Tom is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, Please go to 21st Century Dads.org Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Data dad podcast. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax optical contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Tom. thanks again.

Tom Chibucos: Can I give one more shout out to my brother Marcus and my sister Elizabeth? I love you guys both. All right. Thank you.

David Hirsch: You are one of the most thankful guests I’ve ever had.

Tom Chibucos: Thanks, David. Yeah. Bye now.

Tom Couch: Dad to the dad, you’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and whole.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Father Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching M process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st.

David Hirsch: Centurydads.Org and if you’re a dad, looking for help, or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our Club closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david@21stcenturydads.org the Special.

David Hirsch: Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Tom Couch: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247-365-24-7365.

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