428 – Jeff Zaugg of Flagler Beach, FL Father of Four, Founder of Fathers for the Fatherless, Podcast Host & Now Author

Transcript:

Special Father’s Network Dad to Dad Podcast features guest Jeff Zaugg

Jeff Zaugg: I am so grateful for any dad who leans into the role of fatherhood and says, I’m going to listen to an episode of Conversation, I’m going to read, I’m going to grow, I’m going to join one of your masterminds. And like, I am so grateful and I want to say thank you on behalf of your kids who maybe aren’t thanking you today. They would want me to say thank you.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, Jeff Zaugg, a father, former youth pastor, founder of Fathers of the Fatherless, and host of the dad awesome Podcast. This is Jeff’s second interview on the Dad to Dad Podcast and we’ll hear about his new book, dad awesome. That’s all on this special Father’s Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Jeff Zaugg: Dad to dad. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and home.

David Hirsch: Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

The Special Fathers Network US tour will take place from May 21 to June 21

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Data dad Podcast. Two brief messages. First, I’m, thrilled to announce our new book, Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities. A Guide for 21st Century Dads is now available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other sites. See the show notes for additional information. Second, the Special Fathers Network US tour will be taking place from May 21 to June 21, Father’s Day. The tour will start in Maui, then Anchorage and then to Milwaukee and all around the US by RV to all 50 states. The purpose of the tour is to strengthen and grow the Special Fathers Network and to promote the new book. We’re still looking at confirmed venues for the tour and we can use your help. For more information and see how you can help, please see the show notes or simply go to 21st centurydads.org through

Jeff Zaugg: every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247365.

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen into this conversation between Jeff Zog and David Hirsch.

Jeff Zog is father of four young girls and author of dad awesome

David Hirsch: To be talking today with Jeff Zog. Ah. Of Flager Beach, Florida, father of four young girls, a former youth pastor, founder of Fathers for the Fatherless, host of the dad awesome Podcast, and now author of the book dad awesome. Jeff was originally featured in episode number 267 of this podcast. Jeff, welcome back. Thank you for taking the time to do a follow up interview for the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Jeff Zaugg: David, thank you. I’ve been excited for this conversation. I know we chatted on the phone about a month ago and thanks for, yeah, just the gift of getting to share with your amazing audience.

David Hirsch: You and your wife Michelle, have been married for 20 years. This year, you’re the proud parents of four daughters. Keva, 12, Ruthie, 9, Raya, 7, and Zara, 5. Do you feel like a minority in a sorority?

Jeff Zaugg: This is real, actually. And even as we’re chatting right now, I’m hearing their little voices because they’re just so full of passion now. I actually, in some ways, is a flip. There’s some, you know, dads and moms. Moms that. The mom’s a lot like the daughters and the dad. I’m actually, in some ways, I’m the emotion. You can. I cry more often than my wife does. And, so I, in some ways, I feel right at home. And when people ask, well, you’re gonna try for that, boy, I’m always like, I love being a girl dad. So that’s. That’s my response. Yep.

David Hirsch: That’s awesome.

Your father bought an abandoned Jewish boys camp in northern Wisconsin and built a resort

Well, let’s start with some background. Remind our audience, where did you grow up? Tell me something about your birth family.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, grew up not far from you. So Rockford, Illinois, for 10 years. Then Northern Wisconsin, Eagle River, Wisconsin. So the home of the World Championship Snowmobile Derby, of all things. Right. Eagle River. And then, the Twin Cities, near Minneapolis for a, couple decades. And we lived on the road in the rv. And so I’ve kind of, like, jumped from a few spots. But, yeah, Northern Wisconsin’s like, my marking. Childhood time was in northern Wisconsin. Awesome.

David Hirsch: and, what influence did your dad have on you?

Jeff Zaugg: My dad is a visionary. And that’s where he sold his business in Rockford, Illinois, and bought an abandoned Jewish boys camp in northern Wisconsin. And we, as a family, worked and built one cabin per year and built this family resort. So he had this vision for this raw land. What if we build a family resort where memories could be made? And he’s not the guy who just had the vision. He actually, the execution invited our family. We worked as a team, we built it. And then after he passed away, he died six years ago, my mom sold many of the cabins. We still have a lodge up there. And just seeing, you know, look what happened over these 25 years of a vision being rolled into its reality. And, so I. I’m a visionary leader because of. Because of my dad and many other things I’ve taken from him. But that’s one of the areas.

David Hirsch: Yeah. What wasn’t it called? The Zoggs Resort.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. Just offer last name. Yeah, Zogs Resort. The road was Paradise Drive. So he got to name the road because, we developed the land and. And part of his vision was like, just another day in Paradise. It’s. It is beautiful up there in Wisconsin, but also paradise choice. And as my dad is in heaven now, like that

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Jeff Zaugg: was a phrase. Just another day in paradise was like, we see. In some ways we see heaven, through different things that happen every single day. We can choose or we can grumble about our day. Right. In fatherhood. There’s a lot of parallels to fatherhood and my dad’s choice to seeing the good, seeing the positive, seeing the beauty and things and. Yeah. Zoggs Resort, though. That’s the spot. Yep.

Your dad got sick with lung cancer and brain cancer right at launch of dad awesome

David Hirsch: Did I remember that your dad was featured in your very first episode?

Jeff Zaugg: So, he was Featured in Episode 100.

David Hirsch: Oh, 100. Sorry.

Jeff Zaugg: Quick story on that though is my dad got sick, with lung cancer and brain cancer right at the exact moment of me starting this mission of dad awesome. And in 100 weeks later, he went home to heaven right after episode 100. And so we actually had a 100 week foundation of our movement, dad awesome. The foundation, the launch pad was my dad’s last 100 weeks and a huge. Just, a beautiful, horrible journey. Right. When you say goodbye to someone you love, a father, it was beautiful, but it was beautiful. It brought us like, the closest we’ve ever been was actually those hundred weeks. So a lot of people don’t get that kind of a stretch of goodbye. And my dad lived it really well too, going through those, Those last weeks. So it was. I’m very proud of him.

David Hirsch: That’s the story. I remember there was something to do with the launch of dad awesome and your dad’s life.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So thanks for recalling that.

Jeff Zaugg: Sure.

David Hirsch: Any important takeaways? Another thought that comes to mind when you reflect on your dad.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, he was steady. He was steady versus. You know, there’s so often I want to. I want to be reactive and, or I am a default is. I don’t want to be. I want to respond with wisdom and steadiness like my dad did. But often I shoot back a response fast or my face or my tone show disappointment accidentally. And my dad was steady. as a business owner, he. I think his experiences actually added to the steadiness versus some of us when we go through hard stuff, it makes us more rocky and, or more prickly. Another thing is more prickly. And he was steady, he was wise, he cared for others, he was selfless. Like there’s so many of these Things that I still like, man. Yeah, I want to grow in that area and, yeah, many more things beyond that. But those are. Those are a few of the things.

Dad learned as a young father that his eyes tell the story

David Hirsch: What was the story I remember about shiny eyes?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, shiny eyes. It’s less of specifically from my dad, but it’s something that, you know, I learned as a young father that my eyes tell the story. I will drift towards having dull, tired eyes, not shiny eyes. Wonder leaks. And wonder is a choice. And when I see my four little girls as treasures, gifts, the role of fatherhood, a gift versus a. This is hard right now. Or I’m not seeing, you know, I’m putting all these inputs in and not seeing much of the outputs, which is fatherhood in many ways. shiny eyes is this decision of gratitude, delight, pleasure that I get to bring to my girls. And when my eyes are shining, many times theirs are as well. and if their eyes are not shining, it’s actually a choice of looking at myself saying, why am I carrying this grumpiness right now? Why am I allowing distractions or work or burdens to make my eyes not shine? And that’s our goal for every dad, is like, let’s be the leaders in this area of sparking wonder, of shiny eyes. And there’s a principle called the honor principle that when I walk into a room, I actually can light up with those shiny eyes. I can light up with, delight that I get to be in the same room as my little girls. And often, if I’m not purposeful, I show up and I’m just like, it’s just another day, just a normal day with my little girls, and I can honor them. If Michael Jordan walked in the room. I cheered on Michael Jordan like crazy during those six championships. And I would freak out if he walked into the coffee shop I’m sitting in. But do I do that for my little girls? Do I do that for my little girls? Do I treasure and honor their presence? And so that’s. The shiny eyes is all around those kind of things with wonder. Wonder is the primary emphasis there.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thanks for sharing.

This podcast focuses on dads raising kids with disabilities or special needs

So, it’s been a couple, three years since we, talked last. And you know that the focus of this podcast, unlike yours or many of the others, is on dads raising kids with disabilities or special needs. And I’m wondering what, if any, connection, directly or indirectly, do you have to the special needs community?

Jeff Zaugg: My heart goes right back to Alex, in northern Wisconsin in our youth ministry. You know, growing up with seeing someone who worshiped God Like I wanted to delight and wonder and passion and couldn’t communicate with his words, but man, he loved people. Well, so I don’t have a family member, a niece and nephew, but I think back to those moments in, northern Wisconsin. I’m grateful to have lots of dads that our ministry serves that are treasuring, like we pray that every dad treasures father, but are treasuring this chapter that they didn’t expect with a special needs child. But yeah, in my proximity today, like most of the dads you interview and you serve, I don’t have a strong like close, close connection.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for your transparency and thanks for sharing that story about Alex, this non verbal fellow who was a role model, that’s what I heard you say, you know, for the way he lived his life. And you know, there’s a lot to be learned. I think many of the dads, maybe yourself included, would say that their kids are their greatest teacher. Right. I’ve learned so much.

Jeff Zaugg: Yes.

David Hirsch: From them, about myself, about what’s important in life, from our kids. You know, you think it’s the other way around. You know, that we’re supposed to be like mentoring, leading our kids, raising them, you know, helping them become independent. And it’s a two way street.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. The principle there that I love is being a learner. I like, I want to be a learner, I want to be curious, I want to have a posture of what can I learn today? And instead of gravitating towards a, know it all or I’ve been there or I’ve lived a lot of life in so many decades, it’s like, no, I’m a learner, I want to be a learner and I, I learn every time we chat, David, I’m learning new things, so. Which I’m grateful for.

You went on a multi year RV trip with your family

David Hirsch: So you went on this multi year RV trip. Was it like 550 days in total? Over, a couple, three years.

Jeff Zaugg: You nailed it. Exactly. We counted the days, it was 550, we say nights, of sleeping in that RV and, and get this, just as of our time of recording just a week ago, they referred to it as burning the ships. Right when you arrive at a new land and you burn. So we didn’t burn it, but we sold our RV after these four and a years of ownership. But we traveled for those years, and it feels like a chapter. We cried, actually. We looked at photos as a family. Two nights in a row we’re crying. But yeah, we sold the rv.

David Hirsch: Well, Those are some pretty formative years and experiences that you had. What was the highlight from the, life on the road?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, so we grew closer. We grew closer as a family. Our love for each other grew stronger. We went through a lot of valleys, we went through a lot of moments of this is hard and I’m not sure how we’re going to make it through this. And my girls got to see dad struggle more than through a normal typical rhythms of life in a home when you’re traveling. So do I have an exact highlight? I mean when we, I wrote about one in the book is, you know, a million ants took over our RV in one, like, like a million ants. The floor was moving like liquid. And yeah, the highlight, eating dinner that night after fighting back the ants for an entire 10 hour day. That was, that was a highlight. But it was also a low light having that many ants come on board.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, I’m sure that the girls will have these lifelong memories of life on the road and they’ll be telling these stories to their kids and maybe even their grandkids for that matter.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. Amazing.

Fathers for the Fatherless was founded back in 2018

David Hirsch: So, Fathers for the Fatherless, this organization you created back in 2018, what’s the mission and how has it transpired?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, we’re grateful that we’ve had these two kind of parallel dad, awesome resourcing dads. And then, yeah, this campaign, Fathers for the Fatherless. I had never ridden a bicycle over like 40 miles in one day. And we decided to go for this. Like, what if we, instead of just helping dads, be awesome dads with our, resources, our small group, our podcast, what if we activate teams of men so it’s not just for dads. If any man can join Fathers for the Fatherless and let’s go do a hard challenge and raise funds for partner organizations that directly serve the fatherless. So we just did a little experiment. Let’s try it one year. And we tried to raise $10,000 for this partner. And we usually a local organization and a global that are serving in the area of helping the fatherless. And What a joy. One year turned into six years of this campaign. One, event turned into 32 events. I actually had two daughters when the campaign started and when the campaign ended about a year ago, I had four daughters and I huddled up with the girls and shared, hey girls, we just passed a million dollars raised for our partners who serve the fatherless. And we did this through 100 mile bike rides, triathlons, SP, Spartan obstacle course races. Always do something really Hard in a one day event that pulls a team together that we have to train for. We have to train multiple months for these events. And what we found is the side door to a man’s heart sometimes is a challenge. We need challenge versus just content. So we made such incredible friends. People gave sacrificially they did. Many of these men, it was the hardest thing they’ve done since becoming a dad. They’re like their kids saw them do something really hard and it’s good for our soul to go to press in and connect deeper. We connect deeper with the mission when we suffer physically. So grateful for our partners for the events all across the country and that’s why we hit the road in the RV is I didn’t want to fly away from my little girls to go do these events. So mission remains now we have a chapter now that we’ve said that campaign was through all those partners was called Fathers for the Fatherless. And we still do activation events with dad awesome. But we haven’t reignited that campaign. We’re still praying about how that comes back.

David Hirsch: So can I summarize these as endurance events?

Jeff Zaugg: They’re all endurance events. You got it. You got it.

David Hirsch: Bike rides, triathlons, these spartan obstacle courses. And that was sort of a chapter that you’re talking about and you’re

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David Hirsch: done sort of doing the endurance events, Is that what I hear you saying? No.

Jeff Zaugg: So we called them activation events and we did six years of activation events. We took the seventh year off. So actually the biblical principle of the seventh year pause. We paused on our activation events the seventh year. We re kicked off activation events under the dad awesome campaign just last month actually. So what basically we’ve realized is we’ve loved serving organizations that directly serve the fatherless. But we found that as me being the only staff and all of the added like being focused is actually really important in this chapter. So we all of our events now are focused on fatherhood. Everything we’re doing is fatherhood focused. And we still love and are friends with all these orgs that directly serve kids that don’t have dads. But we’ve just realized in this chapter we need to focus before maybe we grow team and can relaunch that campaign. But we do know that when we take strides in the area of helping dads that generationally that will actually help kids that are fatherless. Like the problem in some ways is an upstream problem of fathers stepping in with their full hearts and a father who fathers their own. In my case, four Little girls, but also their friends are in proximity to me. I’m actually able to father way beyond my four little girls in fractional ways. So that’s our prayer and our mission is that we’re still, we care deeply for kids that don’t have dads, but we don’t have a primary focus in one of our primary initiatives right now.

David Hirsch: Got it. I think of it as the ripple effect that you were talking about. when you’re really good at what you do, it sort of reverberates out beyond. And I, just love it. So, dad, awesome. I identify that, at least historically, as, ah, mostly the podcast with now more than 400 episodes. And I was very grateful to be featured in episode number 274.

Fathers Network has been podcasting for eight years now

Any highlights from the last few years as you’re more of a seasoned podcaster now?

Jeff Zaugg: Oh, my goodness. The two of us, our journeys have just paralleled with, I mean, eight years of weekly conversations. Here’s a gift that I didn’t know by just being consistent of learning. I have met so many incredible friends and mentors and partners around the world. It’s crazy when you just stick with something for a long time. The benefit that comes back to your own family. And all of a sudden I’ll be meeting someone from Johannesburg, South Africa, and they’re, oh, I’ve been for four years listening to your voice. I feel like I know it. So the medium of podcasting is still, to me, I’m just so grateful. I’ve never chased names of influencers or this or that. I’ve just like through friends introductions through friends. It’s wild. the people who have given me an hour of their time to have a conversation. One joy has been my daughter’s love that I have a podcast and having them involved. Our episode dropping tomorrow, like, my daughter’s voices are on there. They’re helping with the intro and. And it’s an ongoing gift to interview and learn. What I have noticed though is it’s hard to hand someone the vault of 427 podcast episodes to hand. Like, here you go. Here’s the body of work that we’ve done over eight years. So that’s really what did force the book project is like, what are some of the core themes, core discoveries? And, my wife jokes that at 1 out of 20 things that are takeaways from our podcast, I put into action. So really, in many ways, Dad’s listening. I fail at 19 out of 20 things that are shared I don’t do personally. because it’s Impossible. You can’t add new, you, know a handful of new principles or wisdom found every week for eight, eight and a half years. So, so that is where if you have the constant drip of inputs, then it’s just like prayerfully, what do I add? And by just adding 1 out of 20 and that’s a huge estimate, right? It might be 1 out of 50 that I actually add, but the ripple effect is huge for my own family. So very grateful.

David Hirsch: I love it. Thanks and wishing you continued success with the podcast.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A, link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you.

The book is entitled dad awesome Dad Discoveries to activate awesomeness

Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So let’s talk about the book which is entitled dad awesome Dad Discoveries to activate awesomeness. There’s six parts. Why don’t you just go through for our listeners benefit, what those six parts are.

Jeff Zaugg: Sure, yeah. Happy to give you the flyover and, and this book was a really. I had the gift of testing it out with all these conversations, all the travel, all the interviews, but bringing these six core discoveries. We’ve hosted and graduated 11 cohorts of our coaching. So we call it the accelerator. The dad awesome accelerator is a six week sprint coaching dads. on these six discoveries.

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Jeff Zaugg: It starts with story. So story is perspective. We all need this, a broader perspective of the bigger story we’re writing. And it’s embracing the fact that the best stories have ups and downs. They’re not even. And that helps us like get through the low points of our story is remembering that good stories have highs and low moments and then just perspective of like our actions today are actually impacting generate like our great, great grandkids. Like we’re making choices today, but we don’t see any of the results short term. So story is all perspective. The next one is identity. My identity is I am a loved son of God. My identity is I have been loved. I am. It’s who am I before? What am I? And receiving love first before I try to bring love to my little girls. It’s huge. So identity is the second part. The third is intentionality. And everyone thinks dad awesome is all about intentional fatherhood. Be an Intentional dad be more intentional. And we’ve actually realized intentionality without these other five discoveries. It’s usually. It lasts for a few weeks, and then I fizzle out. there’s core areas of intentionality. We say curiosity is huge. Being a learner, like we talked about, is a huge area of intentionality. And being watchful. Watchful like we are a protector. And our watchfulness as dads and our attentiveness as dads is huge. But there’s so many facets of intentionality, and, often we try to do too much, and it’s actually doing less is more valuable. So intentionality is the third. Freedom is the fourth. It’s the hand grenade and freedom. If we don’t experience freedom and healing and wholeness. There’s so many things, you know, there’s dad wounds that we bring from our own dads into fatherhood. There’s hurts upstream that man, this thing happened. And I’ve. There’s unforgiven. There’s areas of man, I’m struggling with this vice or this area that could pull me. And a dad can hand a grenade to their kids that will go off and shrapnel will cause great pain. Or if I have the courage to see a counselor, we always are cheering for dads to see a counselor. My wholeness is a gift to my little girls. The fifth one is wonder, and we already talked about wonder, but wonder is delight. Seeing the role as a gift. It’s telling with our words and our eyes, telling our kids, I love that I get to be. Be your dad. And then the last one is leadership. The last discovery is leadership. And most of us dads feel like I’m stumbling, I’m struggling. Who am I to help other dads and to lead other dads? Who am I? And really, the answer is none of us have mastered fatherhood. So in that case, there should be no dad podcasts, no dad books, no dad conferences, no fatherhood resources, because none of us have mastered it. Right? We should look for the masters to bring the content. And that’s a lie in a whisper. The whisper. And you’re not doing a good enough job. I’m hearing the same whispers. And, so we’re trying to debunk that. And leadership is you lead yourself, you lead your family, and you lead other dads. And everyone listening right now has something to bring to some other dads in your corner. Not through, like, telling them, you should change this, but instead, using our words of encouragement, saying, I found this resource, maybe I pass it along. And if we can get more dads sharing the discoveries, being learners, readers reading in the dad’s face, sharing what you’re learning, gathering people around campfires. You know, we have an epidemic of fatherlessness and we have most of us dads feeling like we’re not doing a good job. It’s not true. Like we actually are doing better than we think. We need to help spark change in others. So, so that’s, that’s the flyover of, of the six core discoveries.

David Hirsch: Yeah. I love it. Thank you for, that summary. It’s amazing and I can highly recommend it.

Man Up Kilimanjara is a fatherhood ministry based in Florida

So when we talked a month or so ago, you mentioned something about Man Up Kilimanjara. I had mentioned to you that, my family and I are planning on going to Kilimanjaro, climbing the mountain and then going on a safari afterwards. And you sent me a, link to a video, for our listeners benefit. What is Man Up Kilimanjaro?

Jeff Zaugg: So it’s one of my friendships that was formed because of a podcast conversation. So Jeff Ford, the executive director of man up, takes a team once or twice a year, year to Mount Kilimanjaro and they do this hike and then they get a chance to serve and bring fatherhood ministry resources, in actually two other countries in the area. So the ministry is phenomenal. They do great work in specifically northwest Florida. I’m in northeast Florida.

David Hirsch: It’s more about the journey. Right. I think that’s the point whether you make it to the very top, or not. Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Jeff Zaugg: Sure, sure.

David Hirsch: I’m wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to share before we wrap up.

The Special Fathers Network Data Dad Podcast features dads raising children with special needs

Jeff Zaugg: What I would want to leave these incredible dads with is gratitude. I am so grateful for any dad who leans into the role of fatherhood and says, I’m going to listen to an episode of conversation. I’m going to read, I’m going to grow, I’m going to join one of your masterminds. And

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Jeff Zaugg: I am so grateful and I want to say thank you on behalf of your kids who maybe aren’t thanking you today. I want you to hear this. Dads, your kids call it 10 years from now, 20 years from now, they would come back to today, to your right now, and they would show up and say thank you over and over for specific things you’re doing. You are loving well, you’re caring well. Your words, your eyes, your action, your sacrifices. They would want me to say thank you and keep going, keep going, even when it’s hard. Your Kids like they are so thankful. They’re just not showing it today. They’re not showing it today.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Great advice. So if somebody wants to learn more about your work, to get a copy of the book DadAwesome or to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

Jeff Zaugg: Right now our website is the best spot. We’re actually struggling with Amazon right now, so the struggles with Amazon are real. So we’re sending everyone to dataawesome.org book so all of it’s there. We’ve got a free video series, we’ve got a free download of the chapter and then the books are for sale there as well. So dadawesome.org book be sure to include

David Hirsch: that in the show notes. Give me your email address and some of their links that we included in the previous, podcast episode. Jeff, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Jeff’s just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, Please go to 21st centurydads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Data Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making tax octopal contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Jeff. Thanks again.

Jeff Zaugg: Thank you. Appreciate the conversation. Dad to the dead. You’re not not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and whole.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st

David Hirsch: centurydads.org and if you’re a dad, looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david21stcenturydads.org the dad

David Hirsch: to dad Podcast theme was written and performed by Shane Madden. The show was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Jeff Zaugg: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247-365-247365.

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