Dad To Dad 441 – Frank Dillon of Glendale, AZ A Professor at Arizona State University & Father of Two Including One with Down Syndrome

Transcript:

Frank Dillon: I’ve been reminded that there are other people who are going through the same thing and they actually really like you because they’re for others. And that there’s more to disability than all the negatives and all the worries.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, Frank Dillon, an educator and professor at Arizona State University in the School of Counseling and Counseling Psychology. He’s just one of the dads David Hirsch has been speaking to as part of the 2026 Special Fathers Network US tour Fr. Frank is married to Jennifer and they have two children, including Reese, 18, who has down syndrome. We’ll hear all about Frank and his life on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: Dad to the dad. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, heart and whole.

David Hirsch: Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch hosts the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Two brief messages. First, I’m thrilled to announce, our new book, Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities. A Guide for 21st Century Dads is now available on Audible, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other sites. Second, the Special Fathers Network US tour, a month long 50 state 60 plus stop tour, took place from May 21 to June 21. Mission accomplished. It was quite a journey with hundreds of new connections which will have a ripple effect for months and years to come. Thank you to the following partners, GG’s Playhouses, John’s Crazy Socks, Rotary Club of Chicago and Special Olympics. Thanks also the 60 plus venue hosts, which included 12 Special Olympic State offices and 15 of the 62 Gigi’s playhouses. Special thanks to the RV crew mentioned here in order of appearance. Zane Kooks, Andrew McDowell, Nelson Raskoon, Charlie Hirsch and Steve Harris. You guys were amazing. And special thanks to all those who offered their prayers and provided financial support. This was clearly a team effort.

David Hirsch: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247365.

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen into this conversation between David Hirsch and Frank Dillon.

Frank Dillon is father of two, including one with down syndrome

David Hirsch: For the record, we’re here at Gigi’s Playhouse in Scottsdale, Arizona, and it’s day number 12 and stop number 20 of the Special Fathers Network US tour, a 30 day 50 state 60 plus stop tour to strengthen the Special Fathers Network and distribute complimentary copies of the new book Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities, a guide for 21st Century Dads. I’m, thrilled to be talking today with Frank Dillon of Glendale, Arizona, who’s A professor at Arizona State University in the School of Counseling and Counseling Psychology, and perhaps most importantly, father of two, including one with down syndrome. Frank, thank you for taking the time to do an interview for the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Frank Dillon: Thank you.

David Hirsch: You and your wife Jennifer have been married for 25 years and are the proud parents of two children, Brady, 16, and Reese, 18, who has down syndrome. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your birth family.

Frank Dillon: Sure, yeah. I grew up in, Long Island, New York, and my, birth family is a pretty large Irish Catholic family. I have, two brothers and two sisters, and I’m the 1, 2, 3, 4th. But, yeah, they all reside in New York now.

David Hirsch: So you’re the black sheep of the family?

Frank Dillon: Yes, I’m out here.

David Hirsch: You moved west in the desert. So, out of curiosity, what did your dad do for a living?

Frank Dillon: Sure. He, worked as a fabric salesman in the textile industry in New York City pretty much his whole life. And then when he retired, he volunteered as a clown. Seriously? Visited kids who were hospitalized in the New York City area? Yeah.

David Hirsch: So, when you think about your dad, how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Frank Dillon: he just passed away in January.

David Hirsch: Sorry to hear that.

David Hirsch: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Thanks.

Frank Dillon: He was 87 and had, a tough time the last nine months. He had severely worsening dementia during that time. So losing him was sort of one of the better things that could have happened because he passed peacefully, but at the same time, you know, it was a loss. And looking back, he was a great presence in my life that I mentioned his clowning. I think his sense, of humor was amazing. And something that he taught me really early on in life was to always find the humor in situations. And, I could still sit in meetings at work and be very bored or very frustrated and look, you know, step back and hear him saying, like, all right, what’s funny about this situation?

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Frank Dillon: and that always helped. But. And he also was, you know, a member of the silent generation, so he had a really strong work ethic and always taught me not to quit and to stay committed in his way. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Any important takeaways, lessons learned that come to mind?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, like I said, you know, always remembering the power of humor, even, you know, I was trained in psychology as well, and I even say this professionally, that a lot of times you can really assess how you’re doing mentally by your ability to find humor in situations and to. To laugh. And, you know, there are times where it’s just not there. But that’s also a good indication that you’re stressed out, you’re distressed, and maybe it’s time to take care of yourself, to get to that place again and feel that, sense of humor coming back in a healthy way.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing.

Any other father figures, men that played an influential role when you were young

Any other father figures, men that played an influential role when either you were a young guy or perhaps a young professional?

Frank Dillon: Oh yeah. Many men, you know, were in my life, I’d say since childhood through fathers of friends of mine, you know, they, through Boy Scouts or organizations like that, you know, I would often be around a lot of other dads that were role models in certain ways. You know, I also had the privilege of going to a, all boys high school, which was run by Mariana’s brothers. So there was like a male obviously, presence there that was very healthy in a way. Looking back at, very unique and it’s something that’s definitely become part of me. And then professionally, while I work in a profession that’s 80% women, those men who I have had as mentors or advisors do stand out to me, because I can identify with them more.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. Thank you for sharing.

You graduated from Missouri with a doctorate in counseling psychology

Speaking of education, you have a B.S. in Psychology from Hofstra University, New York, an M.A. in Mental Health Counseling from Boston College, and a, ah, PhD in counseling psychology, University of Missouri, Columbia. Those are pretty close back to back type of experiences. Where did your career start and how has it gotten to be where it is today?

Frank Dillon: I’ll start with graduating from Missouri with my doctorate in counseling, psychology. that’s really where I moved from being a student or professional student, as my family would say, to somebody who maybe actually makes money. I started off, going into a junior faculty research role at the University of Miami doing HIV prevention research and also substance use prevention research, and worked at the University of Miami and then at Florida International University as a faculty member as well. And all that time doing research on prevention of those problem behaviors, especially among groups that are underrepresented in substance use treatment and hiv. Then I wanted to return back to New York so my family and I moved to Albany, New York. I was there for three years. I did well professionally, but my family did not like it up there in the cold, especially after being in Miami for 13 years. And ah, a friend of mine out here in Arizona, notified me about an open faculty position in Arizona State. And I came on out here and all this time I’ve been doing similar kind of research, research, as I mentioned and also now teaching more the next generation of counseling psychologists.

David Hirsch: Outstanding. Thank you for sharing.

How did you and Jennifer meet at Boston College? Oh, yes

So I’m sort of curious to know, how did you and Jennifer meet?

Frank Dillon: Oh, yes. So we met in our master’s program. We were both training to be mental health counselors at Boston College in Boston. Yes.

David Hirsch: And the rest is history.

Frank Dillon: Yes, yes. I could still remember the day I, churned up the courage to ask her what she was doing this weekend. And yes, the rest is history.

David Hirsch: That’s awesome. So you took more away from that, college experience than the average person did then.

Frank Dillon: That’s right. Yeah. I was very lucky to not only, get a degree, but a wife as well.

So what is Reese’s diagnosis and how did it come about

David Hirsch: So let’s talk about special needs. Prior to having children, did you or Jennifer have any connection to the disability or special needs community?

Frank Dillon: No. Not at all.

David Hirsch: No.

David Hirsch: So what is Reese’s diagnosis and how did it come about?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, so, Reese has Down syndrome. We learned of, her having down syndrome 24 hours about. From when she was born. after she was born. It was interesting in retrospect, because we noticed that, like, we were left alone with her, immediately. And there wasn’t as many nurses, or medical personnel coming in and out. It was like there was a weird vibe in retrospect. And then, next thing you know, I went home. She went to sleep. We’re all happy. And I remember getting the phone call very vividly. My wife just crying and telling me that the pediatrician told her they’re pretty certain that reset down syndrome. And I was just

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Frank Dillon: in shock. I can remember getting out of bed because I was laying in bed at the time and just falling to my knees, with. And my bulldog Nigel was there. And, that. It’s just a vivid memory of mine, how much struck me at the time. And, you know, I tell, new dads who might be feeling the same way, especially if it’s a surprise or maybe they find out before the birth that I can, you know, honestly say that since that day, things have gotten better. Sort of like the stock market. Like, if we. I drew an arrow, it would constantly be going up. Like, the return on investment is growing in terms of happiness and pride and less anxiety. And I’m not saying that there’s not highs and lows because there are big.

David Hirsch: The stock market doesn’t go straight up.

Frank Dillon: Yes.

David Hirsch: It goes up and down.

Frank Dillon: Right. There’s 2008, and there’s.

David Hirsch: Wait a second. I’m the financial guy using the metaphors for the investments. You’re the psychology guy of Meeting you where you’re at. Well, thanks for sharing.

The anxiety that comes with having a child with down syndrome is huge

So, reflecting back on those early days, weeks, months, what were some of the fears that you or you and Jennifer had?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, later, having my son, who, was born with, you know, a typical baby, I did notice that all fathers will experience a massive amount of anxiety on day one as soon as they have a baby in their hands. I can pretty much guarantee that. But the anxiety that comes with having a child with down syndrome is probably more than one person should be able to handle by themselves. It definitely was for me. My wife, on the other hand, was. Was much stronger. I feel like maybe it was like a maternal. I don’t know if other men have experienced that as well, maternal, instinct kicking in. But I know for myself, I was just scared as hell. Just so scared about what does this mean for me. It was pretty selfish because I was. I say, what is this? I had all these plans. What. This isn’t. This isn’t what, you know, the movies and the books tell you about what fatherhood is supposed to be like. And it really, yeah, hit me in my kind of rigid way of thinking perfectionistically, like, life isn’t supposed to be like this. So, yeah, there was a lot to process, which we luckily did over time. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Was there some meaningful advice you got early on that helped put the, Down’s diagnosis in perspective?

Frank Dillon: Yes, yes, I do think, I think it’s put, you know, pretty nicely in the welcome to Holland poem, that is spread around, a lot in the down syndrome and maybe other disability communities about how, you know, someone is planning a trip to Italy and ends up in Holland, is disappointed that they’re not in Italy. But Holland’s got a lot to, have a good time and enjoy and love. That was. Is a great way of, like, quickly summarizing kind of what happened for us and something that I internalized that made me start to focus in on what was possible, you know, and that there was hope and it was gonna be a different journey, but it’s gonna be a very satisfying one as a father.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, that poem that you made reference to by Emily Pearl Kingsley is an iconic poem. And, if you’re not familiar with it, it’s certainly worth looking up.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you.

What have been some of the bigger challenges that you faced following down syndrome diagnosis

Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So not to focus on the negative, but what have been some of the bigger challenges that you faced as a result of the down syndrome diagnosis?

Frank Dillon: Medically we’ve been blessed. You know, Reece has had eye surgery. Other than that, nothing. major medical. So we’re very lucky there. But the biggest challenges, I would say after all that early intervention and medical corrections would be in the education system, which is not as inclusive as it should be. And the stressors that people, with disabilities often have with inclusion is extremely problematic. So we, we ran into that. We actually, actually that was a part of the reason to move from New York to Arizona because we found the school district that I ended up moving into to be much more inclusive than where we were in New York.

David Hirsch: Public or private?

Frank Dillon: Public. Public, yeah.

David Hirsch: Okay.

Frank Dillon: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So I’m sort of curious to know what these challenges have had on, Reese’s sibling, your marriage, or your extended family for that matter.

Frank Dillon: Yeah, it’s had a lot. Something that comes to mind is the way that we had to restructure a lot of our life as a family. For instance, my wife is now, you know, a, part time employee of a, speech language app. but at the same time she’s manager of my daughter’s life in many ways. She’s 18 years old. You know, even when she was younger, that was more than a full time job of managing her therapies, her education, especially when we transitioned to homeschooling in her high school years, she had to change her career and then the whole system shifts. Then I had to shift as well, where, you know, the pressure to be the best provider I could be by working 12 hours a day and dedicating myself to my job. There had to be, some adjustments there and where I realized that yes, I could do well, but I don’t have to make it. Everything and my whole self worth doesn’t have to come from my career. I can also be there for my family as well. And I learned it recently, you know, an old man at 53 now I feel like. But it was only recently that I realized that attending to that, attending to my family, attending to Reese and my son Brady is something that I value so much more than what I thought I valued in terms of being, as successful as I could be in my career.

David Hirsch: So how about the extended family? What impact does that had? Positive or negative for that matter?

Frank Dillon: I think it’s been positive. I’ve been really impressed, like maybe other dads have experienced this as well with extended family, who I hope this is true, have kind of stepped up and accepted your children for like they, like my siblings have with me, almost better than I did in many ways. So they supported me in ways that I didn’t expect.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous.

So I’m thinking about supporting organizations. Which ones come to mind that Reese has benefited from

So I’m thinking about supporting organizations. Which ones come to mind that Reese has either benefited from or your family’s benefited from? Remember we’re sitting at Gigi’s Playhouse.

Frank Dillon: I’ll get there. but one thing that really stood out in learning about your organization as well and reflecting on which organizations have really helped us. In Broward County, Florida there’s a, it’s called Broward County Gold coast down, Syndrome Network or organization. It’s kind of like the DS Network here in Phoenix. And that’s where Reese was born in Broward, County, Florida when I was working there. And they were amazing, just amazing. Looking back. And I could sit like I can remember 10 days into after her birth, going to a picnic, like kind of event. I was outside and I met a dad there of a boy who was about, I’d say about eight at the time. And he was just so. There was something about like him shaking my hand and like he was, he was okay. Like he was happy. He was more than okay. He was like this, you know, charismatic guy who was, had a sense of humor. It’s like, great to meet you. And I was like, oh, it’s not all doom, gloom and tragedy.

Frank Dillon: Yeah. There is a light at the end of this.

David Hirsch: Well that’s good that you had that interaction at such a early time. In your experience as a special needs dad. Any other organizations that come to mind?

Frank Dillon: Well, of course Gigi’s Playhouse, m. Most recently, here in Arizona. We’ve been coming here for the last seven years. And most recently I have to say my daughter Reese has loved the GG FIT program because she’s really into exercise and also the adults program because she’s now 18. She’s really loved as well and getting to see people and I’m so appreciative of it. Kind of like probably parents with infants or babies, feel like I was talking before that when school ends, you know, when kids graduate from high school and they go into young adulthood, there is again this, this kind of, like, lapse and like, societal support for people with disabilities and down syndrome. And we, we are feeling that. And we’re so grateful for some. A place where she can come be accepted. I don’t have to be anxious about them, not understanding what she’s going through. This has been great these days.

David Hirsch: So any involvement with Special Olympics?

Frank Dillon: Yes. Reese is a avid swimmer and she loves swimming for Special Olympics. Even as a teenager, she still will get in the pool no matter how cold it is. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Fabulous.

So I’m thinking about, um, spirituality. What role has spirituality played in your life

So I’m thinking about, spirituality. What role has spirituality played in your life?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, I grew up Catholic, and as I said before, I went to All Males High School. That was really, was Catholic. And then I went to Boston College. I’m remembering that as well. Very, Jesuit as well. And I think indirectly, in all of those experiences, the focus on, service has been instilled in me and that the idea of helping others outside of oneself is something to, to kind of run to or move to, to feel more fulfilled.

David Hirsch: Fabulous.

You’re a mentor father for the Special Fathers Network

So I’m thinking about advice now, and I’m wondering what advice specifically to dads, maybe dads that are close to the beginning of their journey with a child with either down syndrome or something else. What advice would you offer?

Frank Dillon: Definitely, as I said before, knowing that it’s going to get better, like every day, you know, there’s going to be a, incremental increase in the way you’re feeling. There’s going to be highs and lows as well, and that’s okay, but. But overall there’ll be a gradual improvement when it comes to maybe your fears about the disability and its impact. The other thing, you know, I’m thinking of today is with the, with the, talking about your network and, you know, being with all other fathers is that, you know, something I’ve learned is don’t do it alone. You don’t have to do it alone. And then learning about your network. I’ve been listening to the podcast over the last couple weeks. I’ve been reminded that there are other people who are going through the same thing, and, they’re actually really like you because they’re fathers and that there’s more to disability than all the negatives and all the worries that come with it.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well articulated. Thank you. So why is it that you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, so many of those reasons. I just said, you know, like, I’ve come through, like, the realization of valuing that service, maybe it’s the humility as well, to realize that something that maybe was a barrier was. I used to say, why me? Like, why would anybody listen to me? I didn’t really do it that well, looking back. But that’s better than nothing. and it’s also reflective of real life. You know, that’s just the way life is. Nobody’s going to be a perfect mentor to others, so don’t worry about that and just try to help other people. Maybe it’ll work out.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, we’re thrilled to have you. Thank you for being part of the network.

Frank is part of the Special Fathers Network mentoring program for fathers

Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Frank Dillon: Yeah, one, thing I was thinking, you know, before starting the podcast, is that how, humble this, this experience has been for me and the amount of humility. I mean, there of all the folks that are here today, you know, any of you could be in my shoes and maybe even would have been a better interview because of, you know, like, just as I know, like, all of you are doing something that is extremely admirable, even just being here today, you know, something that’s admirable, something I identify with. And, I applaud.

David Hirsch: Thank you. So let’s give a special shout out to Chris Mays and our friends at Gigi’s Playhouse for helping connect us.

Frank Dillon: Absolutely, yes. Thank you, Chris, for today and for all you’re doing here at Gigi’s. Yeah.

David Hirsch: I love this playhouse, Chris. It’s amazing. If somebody wants to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

Frank Dillon: Sure, I think, email is the best way, Frank. Dylan. Yeah, that’s my, email address. I kind of check it too much.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes. It’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up. Frank, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Frank is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are, seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21st centurydads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Data dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free. Free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax octopus contribution I would really appreciate your support, Frank. Thanks again.

Frank Dillon: Thank you.

David Hirsch: Dad to the dad. you’re not on your own. We walk this road together, heart and whole.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our

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David Hirsch: personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st

David Hirsch: centurydads.org and if you’re a, dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david21stcenturydads.org the dad

David Hirsch: to dad Podcast theme was written and performed by Shane Madden. The show was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247-365-24-7365.

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