Dad To Dad 448 – Paul Orshan of Miami, FL An Attorney, Author & Father Of Three Including One Who Had A Rare Disease

Transcript:

Paul Orshan: If you have a friend who’s going through something, whether it’s cancer or they lost a job or a parent passed or whatever it is, you can’t fix what they’re going through. But you can tell them you love them and you’re there for them. So just say hello.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, Paul Orshan, a dad, a prominent attorney and author of the book Just say hello, a chronicle of Paul’s sometimes difficult, sometimes remarkable, and always interesting days and nights. Paul is the proud father of three children, including Amanda, who was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease and sadly passed away in 2015 at the age of 22. We’ll hear about Paul’s journey and his life on this special Father’s Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: Dad to the dad. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, heart and home.

David Hirsch: Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch. Two brief messages. First, I’m thrilled to announce our new book, Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities. A Guide for 21st Century Dads is now available on Audible, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other sites. Second, the Special Fathers Network US tour, a month long 50 state 60 plus stop tour, took place from May 21 to June 21. Mission accomplished. It was quite a journey with hundreds of new connections which will have a ripple effect for months and years to come. Thank you to the following partners, Gigi’s Playhouses, John’s Crazy Socks, Rotary Club of Chicago and Special Olympics. Thanks also the 60 plus venue hosts, which included 12 Special Olympic State offices and 15 of the 62 Gigi’s playhouses. Special thanks to the RV crew mentioned here in order of Zane Kooks, Andrew McDowell, Nelson Raskoon, Charlie Hirsch and Steve Harris. You guys were amazing. And special thanks to all those who offered their prayers and provided financial support. This was clearly a team effort.

David Hirsch: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present.

David Hirsch: 247365 now let’s listen into this conversation between Paul Orshan and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Paul Orson of Miami, Florida, who is a prominent bankruptcy attorney, an author and recovering person, 12 step clean for more than 40 years, and the father of three, including a daughter with special needs who very sadly passed away in 2015. Paul, thank you for doing an interview for the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

Paul Orshan: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the work that you do on behalf of Dads and kids and what I call special families. And it’s very much appreciated.

David Hirsch: You and your former wife were married for 17 years and the proud parents of three children, Max, Emily, and oldest child Amanda, who was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease and very sadly passed away in 2015 at age 22. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Paul Orshan: I grew up in Miami, Florida, with my parents and three siblings. I have an older brother, Bobby, I have a younger brother, David, and a younger sister, Rhoda. We grew up in a very middle class, working class environment. My dad was a laborer. He was an electrician. My mother didn’t work originally. She kind of had a lot of kids. She was 24 with four children under 5 years old. And she later on, my dad ended up kind of running our local youth baseball league. And my mother would man the concession stand, actually would attach it to her car and drive it to the park. And as an adult, I’ve been in various places around Miami and someone hears my name. And the question I often get is, was your mom the pizza lady? And I said, yes, that was my mom. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for sharing. And from what I remember, your dad passed away a number of years ago.

Paul Orshan: Yeah, my dad passed away about six or seven years ago. He lived almost 88, I think he was. And yeah, he. My mom, unfortunately, much earlier and much younger. But, yeah, my dad lived a pretty full life.

David Hirsch: And how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Paul Orshan: I’m going to call it evolving. When I was a kid. When I was a kid, my dad and I battled pretty fiercely. And I joked for a long time that the reason we battled was by the time I was five or six, he and I both sort of recognized, without any admission that I was probably either smarter than him then or would be smarter than him soon. And he resented me for that. And I was indignant that he was my boss. We butted heads. I had a tendency to be very sarcastic, and I knew

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Paul Orshan: I could use a tone that would annoy him. And my dad was a Marine and a laborer, and he grew up in Brooklyn, New York. And so he was from the old school where if he didn’t like what you did, the belt would come out and he would use corporal punishment. And I certainly. And my brothers, not my sister, my brothers. And I certainly got a good bit of that.

David Hirsch: So it sounds like your dad was a little bit of a disciplinarian. That’s what I hear you saying.

Paul Orshan: Okay, let’s use that word.

David Hirsch: When you think about your dad, what takeaways come to mind? What were the important takeaways about your relationship with them or lessons learned?

Paul Orshan: So it’s so interesting as I get older and I think back on some of the things I learned from my dad that have carried through my entire life. One of the most important for me has been he used to say, save me from fanatics of any kind. From the time we were kids, he didn’t care for anyone who was fanatical about anything. But I also learned from him a great love of sports and the teams that we followed. And we would go to Miami Dolphins games together. I watched him manage this baseball league for 25 years. His focus was always the kids, always. And the thing that would annoy him the most were when parents would become overzealous or yell at umpires, and he would regularly ban people from the park if they misbehaved. And I believe this is correct, my dad is the one, at least in our area, who started T ball. And what T ball, of course, is where every kid gets to bat whether they play the field or not. Where this is Corey League. In Little League, the kids can sit for three innings and never play. In Corey League, everyone got to play. And my dad was a huge proponent of that. And so I learned a sense of fairness from him and equality. And I still remember my dad. He made it a point to bring home a coworker who was African American so we could meet people who were different than us. And, you know, so there’s a lot of things I really did learn from him and from my mom that have served me well through my lifetime. And I thank him for that.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, I like your emphasis there about inclusion, fairness, acceptance, equality. These are things that you can talk about, but it’s more important to demonstrate them like you did with the examples that you used. No doubt thinking about your education, you went to Tulane, undergrad, University of Miami, Crow Gables. Was that your law school?

Paul Orshan: Yes, and I took a break in between college and law school. I actually graduated college, I started law school, and I got married the first time and then ended up dropping out very quickly because the marriage fell apart so quickly. And actually her father was putting me through school, so that wasn’t going to happen. Interestingly, I ended up working in a high end steakhouse in Carl Gables, Florida. And the dean of the law school and her husband used to come in every day for lunch. And one day one of the waiters went to the dean and said, you know, Paul’s Been working here. We know he started law school. We think he should go back. And the dean called me over and she said, I know you left for personal reasons, but why don’t you come see me? I went to see her. I took the LSATs again. I did pretty well. I was invited to go back to law school in the summer of 1984. I didn’t start then because I was waylaid again. And I’ll. Maybe we’ll talk about this further later. But I made a decision in June of 1984 that I had issues with drug addiction. And so I joined a 12 step fellowship in June of 1984. I was scheduled to start law school in August. I went to the dean in early August and said, I’m going to be honest with you, I just got clean. I’m brand new in recovery and I really think I need a little time under my belt before I start school. And she very graciously deferred my commencement at the school for a year. So I was able to focus on my recovery for about 14 months before I started law school. And it turned out to be a good decision because I did terrifically well in school. It was a great three years.

David Hirsch: Well, let’s segue to that because I think this is an important aspect of your story. What was it? What was the backstory? Was it drugs? Was it alcohol? What did you get tripped up on?

Paul Orshan: One of the things I’ve learned, and I just celebrated 42 years clean and recovery last month, is I share about the solutions to daily living that I’ve Learned through the 12 steps. I don’t really focus on the mess that I was. And I was a mess. I mean, I could not stop. I had no. I have embraced the fact that I suffer from the disease of addiction. One is too many and a thousand is never enough. And I’ve learned it doesn’t really matter what it is. Yes, it was drugs and alcohol for me, but it can also be shopping, it can be sex, it can be a whole bunch of different things where that could be symptoms of the disease that I embrace that I have.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for the insight. If you had to look back with the benefit of hindsight, what’s the most

Paul Orshan: profound takeaway about

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Paul Orshan: my recovery journey that I have? The life I have today because I followed it. I am so grateful to be a recovering addict because it really, number one, it saved my life in some ways and it gave me a path to a life that I. And we talk about it, you get a chance to live A life beyond your wildest dreams. And I am absolutely living a life beyond my wildest dreams. So my greatest takeaway is that this is the best thing I’ve ever done for me.

David Hirsch: Thank you.

David Hirsch: That’s very profound.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So let’s switch gears and talk about special needs. Prior to having children, did you have any connection to the disability or special needs community?

Paul Orshan: I did not. You know, interestingly, my first year in recovery, when I told you I decided not to start law school, I got a job at the local hospital, Baptist hospital, in a daycare center, taking care of the children of people who worked in the hospital. So although they were not special needs kids, I did get an opportunity to gain some dad skills as a young man of 27 or 28, taking care of kids and putting them to bed and changing diapers and doing all those things. But I really had no direct involvement or knowledge at all.

David Hirsch: What was Amanda’s diagnosis and how did that come about?

Paul Orshan: Amanda was born in March of 1992. And when she was born, she did pretty well in the apgar, but they wanted to put her, which is the score that they give kids when they’re born, to, I guess, be okay. And they put her into a neonatal unit because there was a little pinprick hole in her lung. You know, after a week, she seemed fine and we took her home. We were new parents had never had, neither of us had ever been around an infant and we assumed everything was fine. She was eating in a little bit and she was sleeping and she was pooping and doing what babies do. But she started having, like, reflux and some other things started happening. And we noticed that her feet were a little inverted.

David Hirsch: And.

Paul Orshan: And it happened that my mother worked for a group of neurologists and my mother, having had four kids of her own, she knew there was something that was off. There was something in Amanda’s eyes that told her that there was something going on here. So she urged us to go see a child neurologist who used to be part of her practice. And we went ahead and did that. I still remember the meeting. He picked Amanda up, he shook her a little bit, he shined a light in her eye and rang a bell and wrote us a three page letter telling us at maybe two months old that Amanda was going to be impaired for her lifetime. And we didn’t receive that news very well. Honestly, I kind of got angry at him. There’s no real good way to get bad news. I mean, it is what it is. And here’s, here’s look again. You know, hindsight is 20, 22 sets of 23 chromosomes, they’re all numbered. Each of the chromosomes has numbered bands. And it turned out that Amanda was missing, I believe it was bands 13 to 22 on one of her number five chromosomes. And I’m thinking that’s it. Seven bands among all the chromosomes. And I ran over to the University of Miami library to do some research. And at that time, in my limited skills, I found about 16 reported worldwide cases with her particular deletion. And each of them were pretty dire. The consequence of her deletion is that she lacked myelin. And myelin is the sheath that covers the nerves. So she didn’t have that. And so what ended up happening is she just had severe developmental delay. And Amanda, unfortunately, never spoke, never sat up, never crawled, never walked, never was able to feed herself, change herself, or really do anything for herself for her lifetime. And so when she passed at 22 years old in 2015, she was still an infant in many ways, a long, very long infant, but she was, she was an infant. And interestingly, our geneticist, I’m one of these, I’m a frank speaker, I, I like to know information. So I asked our geneticist, when Amanda was a couple of months old and we got the diagnosis, I said, what are we looking at? What’s the prognosis for the future? And he said, my guess, and it’s just a guess, is that because she’s likely going to have very little physical activity, I think her lungs will be underdeveloped and that she will pass from some kind of a lung issue in her 20s, and she did, at 22, get pneumonia,

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Paul Orshan: and that’s what ended up ending her life. So he actually was completely right.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Wow, that’s sad. But there’s the prophecy, right, of what to anticipate. So try to put yourself back at the first year getting all this information, being overwhelmed by it, no doubt. What were some of the fears that you had as a young dad?

Paul Orshan: I will get to that. One other thing you need to know. Amanda was Born in March of 1992, learned about the chromosomal deletion in July of 1992. One month later, our first home was virtually destroyed by Hurricane Andrew that came through Miami. My ex wife and I knew each other for 15 months and we’re brand new parents, newly married, we have no home. We ended up, it worked out. We ended up going to Miami beach to a condo and it was actually kind of nice. But I think early on my fears were that she just wouldn’t have any normal relationships. I was fearful that she would be unable to defend herself in any situation because she had no ability to do that. And one of the things I will say is that one of the great lessons that I found is I remember when Amanda was maybe less than a year old and I had mentioned that she had inverted feet and so they casted her feet. They were trying to straighten them out and it turned out I learned later that inverted feet is one of the indications that you can see in utero that a child might have some impairment. So her feet were casted. And I remember being in a grocery store and a little kid came up and started asking all these questions about Amanda. What happened? Why is she, you know, what is going on? And I was very carefully trying to explain what Amanda’s situation was and the parent came and yanked the kid away. And so what I would say to parents that do not have special needs kids is let your kids ask whatever they want to ask. Most special needs parents, at least I can only speak for me, but I would think are happy to explain to a child what’s going on with their own child. And what that I think can do is allow for some of these other kids who don’t really have the exposure to gain an empathy for the special needs community. So I would encourage and urge parents to let their kids ask whatever they want to ask.

David Hirsch: Let’s segue into the book that you wrote, Just say hello, published in 2018. And I’m sort of curious to know which I really enjoyed reading. What was the impetus for writing the book and who was your intended audience?

Paul Orshan: So I originally started writing the book while Amanda was alive and I was going to write a book about what it’s like to be the parent of a special needs child and how it affects the family and all of that. And then Amanda passed and I said, you know what? I think I want to write about grieving and I want to write about what it’s like to have a child that has special needs and lose a child. And then over Time it sort of just morphed into my life story. For many years. People had said to me, you know, you’ve been through a lot, you know, why don’t you write about it? You know, I’ve always wanted to have my name on a, as an author on a book. And so I started writing it and I struggled with it. After my divorce, my two teenage, other, other children lived with me full time. So I was a full time parent. Had just started my own law firm, whole lot going on. I would say I’m gonna get back to it. And my son, I don’t know if I can say this on the podcast. I guess you could edit it out if I say it the wrong way, but this is what happened. He said, dad, if you wanna write the book, just sit down and write the effing book. It ended up morphing into a book about me. I would like to talk about where the title comes from because it really is about Amanda. So I mentioned that we got her diagnosis in July of 92, and then our house was sort of blown apart by Hurricane Andrew and. And about a year later, a friend of mine called me up and he said, you know, I’ve been thinking about you. I know you’ve been through a lot with the hurricane and Amanda. And he goes, I’ve been wanting to call you, but I did not know what to say. And I said, just say hello. That is sort of like I almost want to start a just say hello movement. I’ve shared that story in my recovery meetings for years and years and years and years to people saying, look, if you have a friend who’s going through something, whether it’s cancer or they lost a job or a parent passed or whatever it is, you can’t fix what they’re going through, but you can tell them you love them and you’re there for them. So just say hello. And two quick examples. My best friend from college, who I’m going to see in November, we’re both turning 70 and we’re going to celebrate our birthdays together, called me to tell me that after he had read my book, a high school friend of his had lost an adult son. And he said, I was really struggling with what to do. And he goes, oh my God, I thought of your book. And I went to their house and I just said hello. And that was really meaningful to me. And I think the most meaningful one, which I’ve shared and I think is in the book. I don’t remember anymore exactly what’s in there, because I Tell so many stories. But after

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Paul Orshan: Amanda passed, I was living in an apartment downtown with wood floors, and I come home to my apartment and I had a voicemail. It was a friend of mine in recovery, a young friend who I’d become very close to. And he said, I heard about Amanda. I am so sorry I can’t be at the service. And he said, I just called to say hello because that’s what you taught me to do. And I. To this day, I get choked up. I remember the tears falling on the wood floor and. Because what happened was, for me, it was such a significant moment, because in my head, what I realized and in my heart was that I had been heard. And I think everyone wants to be heard. And so that. And I’ve continued to share that as often as I can. I think the world would be a lot better if people just picked up the phone. Not a text message, pick up the phone and say hello. I think it’s vital, as people move forward, to do that.

David Hirsch: Yeah, very powerful. And the way I have articulated that is that people want to be seen and understood. Right. They don’t want sympathy, they don’t want pity. Right. They just want to be seen and understood. And I think that this simple action that you described of picking up the phone and just saying, I was thinking about you, just wanted to say hello, just touching base is very profound. And I think you’re right. I think it does mean more if you take the initiative, the time to leave that voicemail message, if you can’t get through, than just a simple text.

Paul Orshan: And I think it’s all, you know, again, I tried to sort of talk about grieving in my book a little bit. The process I went through, and I believe grieving is personal. Everyone goes through it in their own way, and they talk about the stages, whatever it is, you go through it, how you go through it. One of the things I say in the book is that everyone is there on day one, and a whole bunch of people are there on day two. But who’s there on day 47 and who’s there on day 103? So I make it a point to call my friends who have lost someone down the road and say, how you doing? You know, how are you handling what’s gone on with you? And here’s the thing. People are afraid to talk to people about their grief. They think that they’re hurting, that someone’s going to hurt because you’re bringing up the person that they loved. The past, I believe it’s completely the opposite. I Believe people want to share the memories that they have of this wonderful person who passed away.

David Hirsch: Yeah, very profound. I know that what you’re saying is absolutely true. There’s one of the dads in the network, his name is Stephen Hunsley, goes by Doc Hunsley. He’s an md, retired md and very sadly, his son Mark died at age five. And you know, he brought the same thing up. You know, people were fearful of breaking up Mark’s name or talking about Mark incorrectly. They thought it would bring back sad memories. But he said there isn’t a day that doesn’t go by that I don’t think about Mark. So you’re not bringing up something I don’t think about. And by acknowledging that he’s not here, you’re connecting with me. Right. In a very personal way. So he said more people need to understand that. So why is it you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Paul Orshan: You know, when I first wrote my book, I wrote it for my own catharsis. And what happened was I did it through a self publishing company and then after a period of time I ended up sort of canceling my relationship with them. And then about two years ago I reached out to them to get ownership back. And the copy of the book you have was just re released. And I own it 100%. It’s my book. And you know, not about the money, it’s just, it’s mine again. Talk about God incidences. My book went live on Amazon this year on Father’s Day through no control of mind. It just happened on that day. And I think that I want to help spread the message of just say hello to everyone. But I think that I have a perspective both because, you know, look, I’ve been a professional for 40 years. I’ve been in recovery for 40 plus years. I’ve been a dad of both atypical and typical. Well, none of my children are typical. They’re all atypical in their own way, as we all know as dads. And I think that I could really help. You know, one of the things we do in recovery is both we have a sponsor and we sponsor other men. So I have four or five men I’ve sponsored for a number of years. And I just think I have something to offer. And mostly most of the time it’s just an ear and a shoulder. It’s not always anything that I come up with. It’s just really being, having the ability to listen to other people as they go through their own travails, so. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Well, we’re thrilled to have you. Thank you for being part of the network. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Paul Orshan: I think we pretty much covered most of what I really wanted. You’re very thorough. You clearly read my book. I certainly appreciate that. Just trying to spread the word at the end of the day. I wrote the book for

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Paul Orshan: catharsis. I now want to share the message of just say hello as a movement, and that’s kind of what I’m trying to do.

David Hirsch: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Well, we’re happy to shine a bright light on that. Thank you. So if somebody wants to contact you, what’s the best way to do so

Paul Orshan: they can reach out to me through my email, which is my name, paulorshanmail.com and I’ll respond. And I’d love to hear from anyone who wants to reach out and any dad who wants to reach out. I’d certainly be willing to chat with her. And then once I get an email, we can exchange phone numbers.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes. That’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up. Paul, thank you for taking the time and many insights. As a reminder, Paul is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21st centurydads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax collectible contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Paul. Thanks again.

Paul Orshan: Thank you, David. I appreciate you having me on dad to the dad.

David Hirsch: You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and whole.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st

David Hirsch: centurydads.org and if you’re a dad looking

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David Hirsch: you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interest stories.

David Hirsch: If you’d like to share your story

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David Hirsch: to dad Podcast theme was written and performed by Shane Madden. The show was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

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