118 – Dwayne Wiseman Reflects On Fathering Three Children With Dwarfism & Growing Up As A Little Person Himself

Transcript:

Dad to Dad 118 – Dwayne Wiseman Reflects On Fathering Three Children With Dwarfism & Growing Up As A Little Person Himself

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network is thrilled to be sponsored by Rubin Law. A multigenerational law firm dedicated, exclusively to serving families, raising children with special needs. It’s not one thing they do. It’s the only thing they do to find out more. Go to RubinLaw.com R U B I Nlaw.com or call (847) 279-7999 and mention the Special Fathers Network for a free consultation.

Dwayne Wiseman: Life is beautiful. And I don’t, you know, it doesn’t matter whether you’re short, tall, or your color or your everybody is equal and, and just to get the life that you’re still precious. My spirituality has, um, Play a huge role in my life.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Dwayne Wiseman, Dwayne was born with dwarfism and is short statured.

He and his wife, Sandy. Who’s also short statured have four children, two who have forms of tour FISM and one Alexander who sadly passed away at age one. It’s a different and fascinating story. And we’ll hear it on this Special Fathers Network, Dad to Dad podcast. Here’s our hosts, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Dad to Dad, podcast, fathers, mentoring, fathers of children with special needs. Presented by the Special Fathers Network.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network is a Dad to Dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children connect with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support dads.

To find out more, go to 21stcenturydads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we’d be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com, groups and search Dad to Dad.

Tom Couch: And now let’s listen to this fascinating discussion between Dwayne Wiseman and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Dwayne Wiseman at Palatine, Illinois, who’s a father of four and works at JP Morgan mortgage company. Dwayne, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for this special father’s day.

Dwayne Wiseman: Sure, no problem. Thank you.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Sandy had been married for 23 years and the proud parents of four children, Jessica at 21, Marcus 17.

Thomas, 9, and Alexander who sadly passed away in 2002 at age one, both Jessica and Marcus, as well as you and Sandy have various forms of dwarfism. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, I was born in Elgin, Illinois, and, um, I have, um, been pretty much, uh, raised in Schaumburg, Illinois.

I have, um, two parents still living and I have a sibling who is, um, maybe about three years older than I am average size height. So I am the only child with, um, dwarfism. Yeah, I was pretty much raised here and my parents pretty much raised me as, uh, just like any other child and, uh, just wanted me to reach out to my full potential, just like anybody else.

David Hirsch: That’s excellent. I’m sort of curious to know, and we’ll get into this a little bit more. You had mentioned that you were the first person in your family. Uh, with dwarfism and that you have an older sister, right. And I’m wondering if that created any challenges that your sister was taller than you?

Dwayne Wiseman: Um, not, well, I, I, I believe that maybe I might have had maybe Donald the more attention because of my door says him.

Okay. I think because of surgery that I’ve had and, um, you know, my parents had to been great with trying to get me some surgeries and that I needed to give me a better quality of life, but really my sister and I had a good relationship. We have a good relationship. We just try to live a normal family life.

That didn’t really matter whether I was, um, to be tall or 10 feet tall. We pretty much live a normal life together.

David Hirsch: That’s excellent. So you made reference to some surgeries and not to go into a lot of detail, but I’m wondering what was the essence of those as you were growing up?

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, part of my doorframe and let me just find, you only pick the sole dysplasia, which is the second, most common type of dwarfism.

Can have, uh, orthopedic challenges. So I’ve been very blessed with the fact that I was had some yeah, hip reconstruction surgery. So I’m happy the ability to walk and I’ve had to, um, deal with, um, a lot of tubes in my ears and some vision challenges with, uh, retinol and to keep a close eye on with my eyes.

So, yeah, it was basically more orthopedic related.

David Hirsch: Okay. Well, thanks for sharing. So I’m sort of curious to know, um, what does your dad do for a living?

Dwayne Wiseman: My dad was, um, in the educational industry, but pretty much came straight from college and through teaching. And then he pretty much worked his way up to assistant principal or the principal to the deputy superintendent, but now, um, okay.

Is retired. So.

David Hirsch: Excellent. And you mentioned that both your parents are still alive.

Dwayne Wiseman: Yes. That’s a blessing. Yeah. My mother was, uh, she did work as a secretary in a school, separate from my father. Um, she did that and that she would very time try to be more part time. So she was with the kids.

David Hirsch: Okay. So I’m sort of curious now, how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah, it’s very good relationship. I’ve um, when I grew up, yeah, him and I were Indian guys together. And so he was a good father mentor to me. He was always there to help me and, um, get through obstacles and you’re a great father figure and he was definitely a. Uh, one that I would call a role model when I grew up.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. Not everybody has the advantage of growing up with their dad. So I’m glad to hear that you were one of those.

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah. I definitely think that the relationship is very important for the father and the son and father and daughter for that matter.

David Hirsch: So there are any important takeaways, something that always comes to mind that your dad did or said that you think about when you think about your dad.

Dwayne Wiseman: It’s just frame eight, my sister and I, we kind of crack up once in a while, cause he’s always educating. He got that educational background and teaching and you know, he’s always a teacher. He, he comes home and he’s still a teacher. And so that’s just part of his nature to continue to educate and explain backgrounds of things and why things happened for.

That’s how he is. So I have one thing I remember that he’s always wants the best for us, so he always wants to continue to educate us.

David Hirsch: Okay. That’s fabulous. So I’m thinking about other. Father figures. And I’m wondering what role, if any, your grandfather has played on your mom’s side, as well as your dad’s side.

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah. You know, the nice thing about, I was fortunate to know all four of my grandparents and I grew up with them every summer. I would go out to South bend Indiana where they actually both with my parents, grew up in South van and, uh, High school sweethearts. So I’ve learned a lot from my grandfather and just watching him what he does and around the farm and got to hang out with them and bale hay.

And I really, really influenced with my, uh, with my grandparents.

David Hirsch: So I’m, I’m thinking about school. And my recollection was that you went to Conan high school, then Eastern Illinois university, where you took a degree in psychology and business, and then got your MBA at North central college. And I’m wondering when you finished your education, what was it that you were focused on doing well?

Where did you start your career? And I guess how’d you get to JP Morgan mortgage securities, right?

Dwayne Wiseman: I basically, um, was kind of invigorating and getting into more personnel law, personal management, and then, um, but I did like financing, so I ended up wanting to get into a company with financing and I ended up.

Get it going to HFC is household I’m international. And then I kind of navigated over to bank of America and I was there for 18 years. And then I ended up working with JP Morgan for three years. So I ended up just migrating into underwriting cause I’ve been in an underwriting for 20 plus years and, and just enjoy it.

I enjoy doing loans for, um, For customers and joy, the complexity of billows. And, um, I enjoy managing, I managed for 15 plus years now just helping out our customers, helping out their financial lives by giving them a new home or, um, putting them in a better position financially. So I do enjoy what I do.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, what I like about what you’re talking about is that, so you’re lending people money and that’s usually a good thing cause it’s allowing them to do things that they want to do. Sure. Yeah. It’s very satisfying from that perspective. So, um, my recollection was that Sandy, your wife, um, was from Washington state and that, um, she worked at a Walmart.

In, um, Arkansas and that you met, I think it was at a little people of America event. Maybe you can refresh my memory. How is it that you met and how did things transpire?

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah, we met at a, uh, there’s an organization called a little people of America and that’s an organization really more for those who are short statured, pretty much four foot 10, and under.

Most of the members have some type of thing dwarfism, you don’t have to be okay. It diagnosed as a dwarf this organization, but it’s a great organization to you have a commonality of those who are short statured and the national convention is held at a different city every year. And at this point it was Denver and I traveled down to Denver and she was down at the convention as well.

And that’s where we met. We went yeah. Dating at that point, but we, he shot her and then she ended up moving up to Peoria, Illinois. And, uh, once she moved up there and I heard that she moved up there and then I started connecting with her. He started doing the commuting and traveling and dating. On the weekends, shook them up.

I go down there. Uh, we’ll just have to get them to meet each other, get to know each other. And then she was the lady I wanted to marry. So yeah, that’s how we met.

David Hirsch: That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. It’s always inspiring to hear how people start their relationships.

So I’d like to talk about dwarfism on a personal basis. And then perhaps beyond you had mentioned that you were the first person in your family to experience dwarfism. And I’m sort of curious to know when was your diagnosis made and what type of dwarfism again, do you have?

Dwayne Wiseman: Sure. Well, I, my parents knew that something was not quite right when I was born and, and they ended up going to st.

Louis, I believe. And then dr. Dixon passing on me. In fact, they. My parents couldn’t see me for a day or two. Cause they did so much testing on me and trying to figure out a diagnosis of me. And then they finally concluded that I was born with dwarfism and I was born with a spine, get little epistle, dysplasia fed for short.

I think that was a relief, but my parents could at least get to know what was going on with me. And then at that point they kind of reached out and did more studies and trying to figure out more about. What kind of expectations and what they needed to know. And I know I’m sure it was a nervous time for them, just the unknown of what’s going to happen with this newborn child, but luckily, and they were able to reach out to with the little people of America, which is great for educational and finding genetic doctors and doctors who can give you a little bit more insight of what to expect and what you.

With things you can do to help give them a better quality of life door’s child. So, yeah. So yeah, that’s how my parents was able to figure it what was going on. And, um, and why, um, did not look like an average, average baby. So.

David Hirsch: Okay. So I’d like to think about the situation when you were a young person. And then maybe we can talk a little bit about being an adult, but I’m wondering, as you were growing up and going through grade school, middle school, high school, what were some of the challenges when you look back that you are experiencing?

Dwayne Wiseman: Gosh, you know what, because you are quote unquote different than others.

I think others can relate and dwell, you know, I got a got teased, been called names, small fries, and just, just being different. I think, um, bullying was kind of known. I mean, it was happening that it’s happening today. If you have some sort of a in different, I think I grew up with that, but my parents were pretty proud and said, Hey, ignore them.

You know, and I did have a pretty good confidence level. I, I didn’t let that bother me. And I knew that I could, you can do anything. I wanted to, if I put my mind to, and that’s how my parents raised me. So that was one of the challenges. Obviously the challenges growing up too, is that I had some surgeries and I’ve had to deal with.

Um, being in a body cast for a month and I’ve had to go to another school that helps, uh, for those who have gone through disabilities for short term or even long term. So I’ve had to deal with adaptations at school, for example. Well, it was hard for me to carry my books. So I’ve had to get extra set of books for home.

I’ve had to get a little more, more time to get to classes so I didn’t get learned over. So I was sometimes would leave crackers to Pat early so I can beat the crowd. Uh, in my high school public school, I had over a thousand. Kids in my class alone, over 4,000 in the school. So you can imagine them how, uh, uh, that could be intimidating to walk around.

So I don’t know. I friends, I, I knew, um, you can kind of distinguish friends. That likes you for who you, or for your personality and for who you really are inside, or those who likes you because you are different. And they’re just wanting to hang out with you. But one thing I’ve learned is that who your true friends are and who are just kind of want to hang out.

And, but I really did have some good friends going up. And, and, um, so I was very appreciative of that. I didn’t want him to fear just being isolated from others. But I was fortunate to know that I didn’t feel that isolation because of my dwarfism. I really did have some good friends and really liked me for who I was.

So yeah, there were some challenges, but on the positive, I thought overall, I had a pretty good experience in growing up and in schools.

David Hirsch: Well, I think it’s a great testimony to your parents that they. Helping you build your competence and focus on what’s important. Like it’s, what’s inside you and the person that you are.

It’s not what might differentiate you from other people in your case, you know, you’re short stature and easy to talk about. Right. And a more challenging when you’re that, that person, right. That. Looks different or has something different about them. So I want to say thanks for sharing and being so authentic.

So you mentioned that, um, Sandy also has to morphism and I’m wondering if it’s the same type or if it’s a different type.

Dwayne Wiseman: She has a type of call that kind of play here, which is the most common type of door for them. So she’s a little bit taller than I am and, um, But, yeah, that’s cute that the most common type where she had more of an average torso and your shorter on the shorter lens and, um, pretty much it kind of plays or average torso shorter on for the legs might type of dwarfism, uh, find your way principle display job.

It’s pretty much, you know, maybe longer arms, longer legs, but a shorter torso. So, yeah, there are differences. Uh, during the BottleRock, we did have a commonality of being short.

David Hirsch: Okay. Well, thanks for sharing. And, uh, I recall a prior conversation, you had mentioned that, uh, when you got married and you decided to have a family, you know, you had some important decisions to make, right?

Because the probability of having a child of short stature, if you’re both have short stature, Is highly probable. Right. And I’m wondering if you can just, you know, explain to our listeners, you know, what that thought process was and how did that sort of shake out from a percentage of probability, if you will.

Dwayne Wiseman: We did, it’s all genetics and, um, basically it’s depending on who you marry. Um, so because I married a, um, a lady with a kind of plague, ah, And I have a different type of dwarfism. We had a one fourth chance of having a child with a kind of play here. And then we have another one fourth chance of having a child with spine only cause of those dysplasia and then a one fourth chance of being average size and other one, four chance of having, um, It’s called  where you have a mixture of both a contemplated and a SED.

And when that happens, the child can end up being, um, under developed. The Oregon’s will be, it will be underdeveloped and just have, and, uh, mostly most of the time it’s, it is paid all. But I do hear that there are some children with that double, um, Had his acne were, um, can still live. Um, I was very blessed that we did have a child with the combination and did live for at least a little over a year.

And then before he passed. So there is definitely, um, a chance that that can happen. But my wife and I look at the approach of, um, we, we wanted children and we love to the gift of life. And, um, so we were blessed to have, um, Three healthy children. So one child was a kind of abrasion as ed and another child or average size.

So we’ve had a one at each, a lot of the specifics around what we could potentially have and genetically, so it was quite down. So we were quite blessed. Yeah.

David Hirsch: Well, thank you for sharing. And I’m very sorry again, to hear about Alexander passing away at such an early age at age one, you know, a better part of a two decades ago now.

And, um, uh, it’s not lost on me that your older kids, Jessica and Marcus are 21 and 17. And then Thomas is nine and he’s the one. Of average size. And, uh, is he the tallest in the family now?

Dwayne Wiseman: Oh yeah. By far, yeah. He’s growing like a weed, so, uh, yeah, he’s, uh, he’s a real joy and you know, we treat him just like anyone else and, um, he recognizes we’re short stature, but I don’t, it doesn’t seem to phase him right now.

So, yeah, he great. Are the family. I don’t think there’s any ill feelings or anything about our Heights and it’s great. He’s great to be able to help out and getting stuff out of the freezer and eating great. He just said he’s a, he’s a wonderful kid.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, I imagine as he gets older and perhaps he gets taller, cause he’s only nine years old.

Now that that height is going to come in handy for everybody.

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely.

David Hirsch: I’m sort of curious to know with your older two, if there’s, um, any particular, uh, challenges that, uh, you and Sandy have experienced, um, whether it’s from a personal standpoint, an emotional standpoint, a developmental standpoint that come to mind.

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, you know, when you’re born with dwarfism, we do have to keep up with, um, Challenges physically. And, uh, so we do run around my wife pretty much does the running around majority of the time with doctors and, um, you know, my daughter, you know, she’s encountered orthopedic challenges along with some challenges or just something that we have to watch for without a type of dwarfism.

And the thing with my son, he encountered some challenges, uh, orthopedically. So he’s had some surgeries as well. But it’s just part of being a parent. We want to give the best quality of life to them. I’m very fortunate that we’re able to get them to some good doctors here in Chicago. It’s the one reason why we’re here because there is such good doctors and the school districts here where we just felt like this is the place we want to be.

Especially for medical reasons for our kids.

David Hirsch: That’s fabulous. So I’m wondering if there’s any meaningful advice that you got early on as parents for helping you navigate the situation, you know, beyond your own personal experience growing up?

Dwayne Wiseman: Oh yeah, sure. Um, if somebody a dice, it. It’s just yeah. Be proactive, especially.

Yeah. I went, you know, went up to Wisconsin, Mexican, genetic doctors who was very well versed of dwarfism and they specialize in dwarfism and just things to look for as you raise a child with girlfriend psychologically, you know, instill the competence level in them. They’re going to have challenges, meeting friends.

It was a bit harder on the dating. Once you get into the adolescent stage being part of the, uh, little people’s America. And, um, the doctors that we’ve met up in university of Wisconsin up in Madison has certainly has helped us out.

David Hirsch: Excellent. Well, you mentioned a couple of organizations. The first is little people of America.

And then the second is university of Wisconsin. The ones with the specialty in geneticism. And I’m wondering if there’s any other groups or organizations that you yourselves or on behalf of your family that have been important to you?

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, it’s ironic because now with the era of the internet and blogging and.

Facebook and everything else that’s out there. It’s amazing what you can find and be able to share your experiences. Now online, there is now a website and a blog just for those who, um, has a STDs or kind of, yeah, there’s out there now that you can talk to each other and. And ask them questions. How do you drive?

What did you have to do with this British school district to help you go through driver’s education? And it just, it’s great that they have that resource online now that you can talk to people.

David Hirsch: Yeah, that’s excellent. Um, and then the information available today is greater than it’s ever been. And, um, I know that it allows us to connect with other people that have similar situations to our own.

So I did have one question sort of an afterthought, but I thought I’d ask you because when I was doing a little research about little people from America and all these other resources that are out there, I stumbled across something called the dwarf athletic association of America. And I’m wondering if.

Yeah. It’s something you or your family have been involved with at all?

Dwayne Wiseman: Yeah, it was. We call it the AAA, which is new for Georgia athletic association of America. Uh, it’s a great organization for those, with dwarfism that, um, has a little bit harder time competing on their level and, um, sports tracking.

Field basketball, soccer, which other sports is that, um, you can be involved with in  and you get to play against those who are short statured into the teams organized together. And it’s a great competition normally happened during the same time as the natural, um, national convention. And, uh, I was actually part of the AAA when I was in high school, I played basketball and I did swimming and it was a wonderful experience to be part of a competitive environment within sports is something that those with dwarfism do not have.

I take it back. They’re out of stuff, my friends that were involved in left lane at a high school level, but really this is a great experience to be involved with. And so I’m glad you brought that up as another great organization to be part of the D AAA.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for sharing. So I’m sort of curious to know what, if any role spirituality has played in your lives?

Dwayne Wiseman: Yes. I definitely feel, um, you know, I go to church every I’m Catholic and I go to church every Sunday and, um, I definitely am. I believe that, uh, life is beautiful and I don’t, you know, it doesn’t matter whether you’re short, tall, or your power or your everybody is equal and, and just to get the life that you’re still precious.

So I, I definitely, um, definitely the, my spirituality has played a huge role in my life.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. Um, I remember one of the, uh, other Special Fathers Network dads. Saying, and he’s a rabbi out in LA saying that he doesn’t know how some people get through challenging situations, especially, you know, if you have a child or children with different challenges or special needs for that matter, you know, without your spirituality, right.

Trying to do it all on your own. He said, You know, where would somebody find the strength to do that? So, you know, he talks eloquently about the importance of spirituality and, um, you know, I heard you saying that as well, so thank you for sharing. So I’m thinking about it nice now. And I’m wondering if there’s any advice in addition to what you’ve already mentioned about the importance of being proactive, about instilling competence that comes to mind, you know, when thinking about your situation or just raising a child with differences for that matter.

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, I, one thing I’ve learned is you gotta put your, so I was in a position to be successful. And one way of doing that is a good education. Do what you can to make sure you have a good quality of life, tendons of your health. Um, make sure you, you go through school and go through college. Get yourself set up for a good career.

You know, and then if, if someday you may want to consider a marriage and then, then you can consider marriage split down the light, but I’ve always been one of those. And it’s one thing I’ve been advocating with my kids. No, get yourself set up, miss. I haven’t, you might have a little rough time with, um, you know, I’m training, get yourself established and just get yourself set up.

Financially, and we did good education and didn’t worry about the dating if you want. I know a lot of people are today early, and I know that it’s kind of one of those things where you, I think they lose out on because of being short statured. Um, Particularly in high school and the college. Um, but you know, that, that will come, you know, that relationship will come if one day you want to get married, but just get yourself a good foundation.

And one thing I’ve also tried to tell them is that, you know, well, we’re very blessed with how, um, We are now more recognized as being more equal, but I’ve grown up or I’ve had some challenges finding jobs and you don’t know it, know sure. Dashing might’ve played it, uh, because of my cool parents, but I told them, you know, you’re going to have some hard blocks in your life and that’s why you need to really step it up and get yourself a good foundation.

And. And prove yourself. That’s what I would. Um, that’s what I’ve been telling my kids. Well,

David Hirsch: I think it’s a really important message for all parents, right? To encourage their kids to get a good education. My grandfather, um, grandfathers, uh, emphasize the importance of education, part of. It from our family’s perspective was that they came from Nazi Germany, um, back in 1938, and they had to start all over.

And my grandfather was often quoted as saying, you know, how important education is because it’s one of those very few things that nobody I can take away from you. And like you were saying, Dwayne, build a good foundation for yourself, invest in yourself because. This is something that you always have, right.

You always have to fall back on. And regardless of what the challenges are, you know, who, who knows what life is gonna throw at us, um, today it’s the pandemic, right? Who knows, you know what it’s going to be, you know, years from now or decades from now, but with a good education, hopefully you have the ability to think and to adapt to whatever the circumstances are.

So thanks for making sure.

Dwayne Wiseman:  Sure.

David Hirsch: Yeah. So I’m sort of curious to know. Why is it that you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network?

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, I do believe that I could share my experience and, um, Some of the commonalities, um, some of the situations that we may encounter having, uh, maybe, um, a child with, um, some form of disability, I could certainly share my experiences and, um, and proactiveness of doing the research and doing what you can to, uh, give your kids a good quality of life.

So I’ve experienced it. And I certainly like to share. That with other fathers.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for being part of the network. We’re thrilled to have you. And I think that you’re in a unique situation because. Not only have you raised, uh, children with some challenges like we’ve described, but you were one of those kids when you were growing up as well.

So you’re not just speaking from a father’s perspective, trying to help us on our daughter, you know, reach their full potential, but you experienced that yourself. So I think that makes you an invaluable resource for the. The network. So again, thank you for being part of the program.

Dwayne Wiseman: Definitely.

David Hirsch: Let’s give a special shout out to our mutual friend, Michelle Sullivan from Peoria, at Caterpillar for helping connect us.

Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Dwayne Wiseman:  Gotcha. I used to appreciate this time with you and, um, I definitely looking forward to speak with other fathers. I just like to hear their experiences too. I certainly would be open and to help out others and, um, love to hear their experiences as well.

So yeah, all in all, I appreciate this time and, um, I look forward being part of this group.

David Hirsch: Well, thank you. So if somebody wants to learn more about dwarfism, little people of America or contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, I did the little people of America website. It’s just fantastic. Um, there’s great resources on there that you can reach out to, to any organization, um, on the upcoming events within your area.

There is local chapters that you can go to. Um, All across the country or across the world. There’s other little people or organizations in Europe and Australia and everywhere. So it’s a really organization. So definitely a little people of America website and you can always reach out to me as well. And I can certainly give you some additional contacts or inquiries that you have.

David Hirsch: Okay. We’ll put that in the show notes. So it’ll be easy as possible for people to follow up. Dwayne, thank you for taking the time and many insights. As a reminder, Dwayne is just one of the dads. Who’s part of this Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs.

If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stcenturydads.org.

Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.

As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501 c3organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free. To all concerned, please consider making a tax deductible contribution. I would really appreciate your support.

Dwayne, thanks again.

Dwayne Wiseman: Well, thank you.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Dad to Dad podcast presented by the Special Fathers Network.

The Special Fathers Network is a Dad to Dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs through our personalized matching process. New fathers with special needs children. Connect with mentors. Father’s in a similar situation. It’s a great way for fathers to support fathers, go to 21stcenturydads.org.

That’s 21stcenturydads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help, or we’d like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com, groups and search Dad to Dad. Also, please be sure to register for the Special Fathers Network, biweekly Zoom calls held on the first and third Tuesdays of every month.

Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to David@21stcenturydads.org.

Tom Couch: If you enjoyed this podcast, please be sure to subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen. The Dad to Dad podcast was produced by Couch Audio for the Special Fathers Network.

Thanks again to Rubin Law for supporting the Dad to Dad podcast. Call Rubin law at (847) 279-7999 and mention the Special Fathers Network for a free consultation. (847) 279-7999.