411 – John O’Leary of St. Louis, MO, A Motivational Speaker, Best-Selling Author, Podcast Host & Father of Four – Part 2

Transcript:

My dad with Parkinson’s disease rose to the occasion in this play

John O’Leary: And then they have the church rise. And the most moving scene for me is in the second row behind the actors. My dad stands up.

David Hirsch: Oh, my God.

John O’Leary: I’m a dad with Parkinson’s disease. My dad can’t stand. But when my dad heard the word, action. This warrior, for the final time in his life rose. I’ll always have this moment with the actors standing up in the front row. And then you see this stud man pull himself up and will himself forward. That moment captured, captures the essence of my life. Because in every moment of my life, my dad rose to the occasion.

This is the second installment of David Hirsch’s Dad to Dad Podcast

Dad to dad, you’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and home.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, John o’, Leary, a father, a podcast host, and motivational speaker who has a truly incredible story to tell. When he was nine years old, John had a horrific accident where most of his body was badly burned by a gasoline fire. While in the hospital, he was visited by local celebrity St. Louis Cardinals broadcaster Jack Buck. Jack took an immediate liking to John, and the two developed a fast and deep friendship. A movie has just been released that tells this incredible story, and we’ll hear all about it in this second installment of David Hirsch‘s interview with John o’.

John O’Leary: Leary.

David Hirsch: It’s the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Hear now our host, David Hirsch.

The Special Fathers Network the Father’s Network Mastermind Group experience is free

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network the Father’s Network Mastermind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs, meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. The Mastermind group is free for the first 30 days. Stop trying to figure out things on your own. I invite you to join one of the existing Special Fathers Network mastermind groups. You’ll meet some extraordinary dads, exchange a lot of best practices, and recharge your fatherhood battery for the journey ahead. It might just transform your life like it’s done for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or Simply go to 21st centurydads.org.

John O’Leary: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247365.

John O’ Leary wrote his first book On Fire in 2016

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen into part two of this conversation between John O’ Leary and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Your first book, written in 2016, entitled On Fire the Seven Choices to Ignite a Radically Inspired Life. What’s the backstory on you writing that book?

John O’Leary: Yeah, well, you know, I know your. Your day job with the kind of work you do. And we would speak at the financial practices and we would speak at hospital gatherings and sales functions and prisons and like schools, all these places. And then afterwards people would say, man, I wish my kid would have heard that, or my spouse or my neighbor. And it’s like, man, at some point, how do we, how do we scale that story? How do we make it more enduring but also more elastic? And so, we wrote a book, it’s called On Fire and it’s really the story of others. So I had no idea what would come of this. It was eventually translated into 12 languages. It’s a national bestseller. It’s made its way around the world. And eventually it would be the story that led to the film Soul on Fire. So that’s been a pretty radical journey that in nine years a book from a first time author has made its way around the world and ultimately into a film.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it’s like a pinch me moment. Thank you for sharing.

Your book On Fire shares the remarkable story of your childhood accident

So your book On Fire shares the remarkable story of your childhood accident, the one we’ve been talking about. what part of that journey do you feel readers most often misunderstand or overlook?

John O’Leary: I think the thing most people overlook or misunderstand is thinking that the fire was the hardest thing to go through. And I think that was the easiest thing to go through, as hard as it was. I mean, skin grafts and amputations and bandage changes and therapy, my gosh. But the hardest thing for me was the emotional side of embracing a broken reflection. And there’s a line, my mom used it when she was trying to figure out, what do I do with this son? Like, what do I do with a kid who is so different than the one I thought I would have? And so she used to talk quietly about redefining perfection. What is perfection? And many of your listeners understand this idea of, like, how do I change my perspective of, what perfect is in a world I will not? And it’s, it’s to change myself in such a way that ultimately the world will change alongside with me. When I love this thing enough to realize that this thing as it is, is perfect, then that thing begins to change and then the world around it begins to change with it. So for me, I think the greatest misunderstanding is believing that John wrote about being burned as a kid and how tough that was. And what I really

00:05:00

John O’Leary: wrote about is, what happened after I came home and what it’s like to look in the mirror and choose to love what you see and build a life that is Meaningful afterwards. That’s the real work. And that is not work for just those who’ve been through a fire or a diagnosis they wish they had not received or their kid had not received. But for everybody, we all go through these storms and these struggles and see things in the mirror that we wish would not be there. Great. Then what? So that book, in so many regards, is about the then what?

David Hirsch: Yeah, very powerful. You didn’t use the word, acceptance, but I think that’s the message that I just took away.

John O’Leary: Yeah, I mean, that’s chapter two. I think chapter two is acceptance. So, yeah, you’re exactly right. It is about acceptance.

Your second book came out coincidentally in 2020 during the pandemic

David Hirsch: So your second book is entitled In Awe, Rediscover, your childlike wonder to unleash Inspiration, meaning and joy, which came out coincidentally in 2020 during the pandemic. And I’m wondering what the backstory is about. In awe. Yeah.

John O’Leary: Well, I recommend not launching books during the pandemic would be my first recommendation. But the other recommendation would be now go read it. And they’re like, well, why? I wrote this book because Jesus said, let the children come to me. Which is a really odd thing for Jesus was a rabbi. You know, like, I don’t know what people view Jesus as necessarily, in particular those who may not know Christian faith, backward and forward, but Jesus was a teaching rabbi. And at a time where children were second class citizens, if that they were actually relatively replaceable, I mean, you needed to get comfortable with that because more than half would pass away anyway. So the idea of let the children come to me is an unusual cry. And I think what Jesus was referring to, what in all ultimately refers to, although it’s a more pragmatic approach in some regards, is this desire on a heart to be opened up for the first time again, to be less cynical, to be less judgmental, to be less divisive, to be far more inquisitive, to be curious, to be joyful, to be free. So what led to me writing that was not just the sentence, let the children come to me, like as I was writing, that’s when that came to light. It was the fact that I was going through life with the world that likes to march with their arms crossed, looking down at their phones, at, ah, the beliefs they hold so fast, whatever that belief system is. And then I would get home from a long day or a long business trip and I would see these children who were my four kids just like on fire for life. And what I knew as they were teaching me about true joy and true life and true freedom is one day they will not be the same child. They will lose it. They will begin to not run out to my car when I pull in the driveway. They will not look up from their devices. They will sit there in their rooms, looking down, arms crossed judgmentally, not only at me and others, but at the mirror. So I wondered, what was it that children had that we have lost and how do you return to it? That whole book, in some regards, is about having your cataracts removed from your eyes and your heart. To step back into life as a child does naturally, it is free. You don’t need a gin and tonic to do so. You don’t need a good retirement plan to do so. You don’t need no problems to do so. You need the heart of a child. And so in, awe is about returning to what it was that we once held freely. We knew well, and then we lost it.

David Hirsch: Very powerful.

Episode one of your podcast was an interview with your mom

So we’re fellow podcast hosts. You’ve, been at it, a little bit longer than I have. You started in 2016. episode one of, season one was an interview with your mom. Susan O’ Leary went back and I listened to that episode, and I was just moved to tears by the relationship that you and your mom have and the fact that you took the initiative.

John O’Leary: To.

David Hirsch: Start this podcast without any idea where it would be going, with, that interview. And it was a lengthy one, and it was in a lot of detail. And, you and your mom had so much fun. I can tell just by the tone of your voices recording that episode. if you could reflect for our listeners.

John O’Leary: Well, here’s the. Well, I think I’d like to set it up is episode two was probably Dave Ramsey, and then episode three was Brene Brown, and episode four was Joe Buck, and episode five was Jim Leavelle. Like, in other words, hero. Hero, hero. Like American icons all but, man, I had to start where it starts. And that’s why the first episode’s not with the biggest name I could possibly draw in. It’s with the person who had as much influence as anyone in my life by far. And it’s my dad’s wife, it’s my sibling’s parent. It’s one of my heroes. It’s my mom. Mom, not only are you a phenomenal mom, but I think you are, an outstanding leader and lady that we can all learn a lot about.

00:10:00

Fathers Network is asking dads to complete a survey on special needs parenting

So I wanted to begin the story on where you are today. Tell me about your family today. Do you have any kids? Any grandbabies Are you married? Oh, that was such. What a great lead up to what. What I love to talk about. I’ve been married to, your sweet dad, Denny for 48 years. We have six children, five of whom are married. We just had our 18th, as you well know, grandchild two days ago, little Charlotte. We just are overwhelmed with gratitude and joy with these babies. So what I remember most about that interview is I’d never done it before any of it. So to interview my mom, it was awkward, I think for both of us. We were in a. You know, podcasting now is pretty. It’s everywhere. It’s relatively universal. But back then it was like, it was unusual, man, to have microphones in front of you and have people listening. So we were both nervous. And then what I remember most about it is at the end, I asked seven questions of all of our guests. So Bernay and Joe Buck and the astronauts and the Ironman and all these other folks. but my mom was the very first to run the gauntlet. One of the questions that got her was, if you could visit with anyone, living or dead and have a nice long conversation with them on a park bench, who would it be? And so she like, looked at me with these puppy dog eyes, like John, like, so caught off glance, and she’s like, punching me under the table, like, next time let me know you’re doing these questions. So I remember just the joy of interviewing my hero and this playful banter of awkwardly loving the conversation together.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it was very powerful. I can highly recommend it.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

I’m curious about your process for choosing guests for your podcast

David Hirsch: I’m sort of curious to know, as it relates to the podcast, what’s the process you use for choosing guests and what qualities signal that someone would be truly inspiring to your audience?

John O’Leary: Well, I think you answered it even in the way you asked the question. So we, we always start with our audience in mind. I frequently, when I’m interviewing someone, you and I talked about this before we hit record. I’m over prepared and usually like a couple times I will hear them say to me, I’ve never Been asked that before. Or they’ll say, wow, you really did your research. And the reason is, is because I care enough for them to care for the audience. I want them to hear a message that moves them. So I want them to receive a deeply inspirational message. Sometimes about marriage, sometimes about singleness, sometimes about addiction, sometimes about raising kids with special needs, sometimes about building a big, meaningful business. We’ve had the guys who started, Netflix and other huge organizations on our show, but we don’t bring them on because they started Netflix unless they have a message that would inspire the audience. So that’s key. We get a whole lot of people requesting to be on these days. So I have a producer now who’s, responsible for kind of moving through that a little bit. I struggle. I used to. I feel I’m Catholic, so guilt moves me, man. I’m, guilt. So I’m an easy yes. But if you say yes to everything, you say no to the things that matter most. that’s like a quote you should hold on to. If you’re always saying yes to everybody else, you are saying no to your wife, you’re saying no to your kids, you’re saying no to your health. So I need people who help me say no. And so I have a team of folks who are on the production panel who decide what we say yes and no to. They normally bring me just a couple options, and then pretty quickly, as I do a little bit of research, I realize, man, these people will move our audience. so let’s go. And it’s not about political affiliation. If you want to know something crazy. I’ve had Democrats and Republicans on my show. I’ve had Christians and non, believers on my show. We’ve had rabbis, we’ve had folks, every belief, including no belief. But I think our God is big enough to love us all and have a conversation with us at the well. And I think our listeners are smart enough to listen to those who feel differently than they and to grab from them things they need to journey forward. I’m not CNBC or Fox. Like, we try to be diverse on purpose because I think the world is already so divided. I’m trying to bring on messages that bring us together.

David Hirsch: Very powerful. Thanks for sharing. And from one podcast host to the next, thanks for the insights. Much appreciated.

William Leary says he treats his actors like family

let’s talk about the movie, which just came out in October of 2025 here. Soul on fire.

00:15:00

John O’Leary: Come on, John, stay with me.

David Hirsch: Wake up.

John O’Leary: Coming through, coming through. How bad is it?

David Hirsch: He has burns to 100% of his body.

John O’Leary: Want to send out a special hello tonight to a certain young man who’s laid up in the hospital. His name is John o’.

David Hirsch: Leary.

John O’Leary: He’s a, tough little guy. When I first came to see you, they said you had no chance, but here you are. You’re going to face challenges when you get out of here, but you can still do almost anything. Do you like to dance, Beth? No one. But I will. Who is that guy?

David Hirsch: John o’.

John O’Leary: Leary. He’s kind of a legend around here. I have a scout troop, and I heard about what happened to you. I just thought that my girls might be inspired if you came and talked to them. To move through the adversities of life, we must have a reason to thrive that is bigger than all the challenges that we face. The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire.

David Hirsch: My recollection was that the production of that began a couple of years prior. You mentioned the director was Sean McNamara. The story was written by Greg Poirier. It was released by Sony Pictures. I’m wondering, what relationship did you share? You already made reference to John Corbett, who played your dad, with the other actors, including Joel Courtney, who played you.

John O’Leary: Well, I think the easiest way to answer that is I treat people like they matter, and I treat people like their family. Like, when we work with clients, my wife and I send out a Christmas letter, and it goes out to our family. That’s a lot of people. Look, with the last name o’. Leary. It’s a lot of friends and family. We built over, you know, almost 50 years of living now. But it’s also my clients, so we treat clients like they matter. I. I treat AV guys, like I’m a speaker. I treat the guys in black in the back of the room like they are the most important people in the room. Like they matter. So some of those guys are on the Christmas list. But at the end of the day, I treat our actors not like they’re Hollywood actors. John Corbett is not a big deal. He’s an actor. He gets paid to do that. But at the end of the end of the day, he’s a guy. He’s from a broken family. He built up a life. He’s married to Bo Derek. He likes to ride horses. He loves my kids. He loves guitars. He’s got a good singing voice. He likes to have a drink from time to time. He’s a just fun, good natured, great human being who loves my mom. In other words, he’s not a job title. He’s a guy, Stephanie Shostek from Iron man, who plays my mom in the film. she’s my. She’s one of my dearest friends. Now, the girl who plays my wife, her name is Macy McLean. Macy’s incredible. She’s this great, young, talented producer, musician, beautiful, humble, faithful girl who my wife and I consider part of our family. her husband, Caleb, is incredible. He’s been at our house several times. They all have. Like, this is my house. They’ve all been in here. We’ve made them dinner. We had a drink on the porch. in other words, we treat them as if they are the most important people in the room because they also see us treat the waiters who serve us when we’re out, or the people who dropped off the mail or anybody else’s if their life matters. And when you bring everybody up, everybody, it also brings every. All the ego back down. So on set for the film, there was no ego. How could there be? You’re no bigger than anybody else. This thing doesn’t get done unless we’re all working humbly in the same direction. So I grew to fall in love with folks. I think they also grew to fall in love because William H. Macy was one of our actors. Bill Macy’s a big deal, but we treated him like he was just part of the guys. And I think most of us long to be treated with dignity, but in the same way that we treat the. The most important among us. So Bill wasn’t treated any different than anybody else because he was treated as the best, as everybody else was treated.

David Hirsch: Well, didn’t he play, Jack Buck?

John O’Leary: He did and he did. He just a masterful job.

David Hirsch: Yeah.

Watching your life portrayed on the screen could be emotional

Watching your life portrayed on the screen could be emotional. What aspect of the film most accurately captures who you are beyond the public story?

John O’Leary: I mean, you see whispers of it, but John’s a dad and John’s a son. I mean, the final scene, I’m not going to go into details, but you see a man who has four kids, a beautiful wife and a, mom and dad that he’s still humbled, by. And then it ends in a very, very, very meaningful way. in particular when you see the postscript. So I’m a son, and I’m a dad, and I’m a husband. These are job titles that I hang my hat on long before I say producer, author, speaker. You, know, those things are fine. But I think at the end of the day, I’m coming from a funeral today. I don’t know what the person who died did for a living. And at the end of the day,

00:20:00

John O’Leary: I hope people who come to my funeral say the same thing. Like, they’re not even sure what the heck that guy did. I’m pretty sure he was retired his whole life. I mean, he never seemed to go to work anymore. My gosh, all he did was have fun every time I was with him and make me feel like I mattered. And so, the scenes that captured those make me most proud. And they do a great job in that film. I think the moments that are most meaningful when John gets married to Beth in the movie. So Joel Courtney plays me. Joel Courtney was in Jesus Revolution last summer and a bunch of other films. But Joel’s a great actor and a better guy. So he gets married to Macy in the movie. Well, that church where they get married is called the Shrine of St. Joseph. That’s where John and Beth actually got married. The people who were in the church for the filming were actually the people who were in the church when we got married. So these are our friends and family. Why would we not bring them back? Why pay actors when we can have friends celebrate with us? So that was cool. The girl who plays my wife looks just like her. And also, she wore my wife’s actual wedding dress.

David Hirsch: Oh, my.

John O’Leary: So when you see the scene where this beautiful girl walks down the aisle in this beautiful church with all these beautiful people, like, well, that’s pretty real of life. And then they have the church rise. And the most moving scene for me is in the second row behind the actors. My dad stands up.

David Hirsch: Oh, my God.

John O’Leary: From a dad with Parkinson’s disease. My dad can’t stand. But when my dad heard the word action, this warrior, for the final time in his life, rose. And, I’ll always have this moment with the actors standing up in the front row. And then you see this stud man pull himself up and will himself forward. So, that moment captures the essence of my life. Because in every moment of my life, my dad rose to the occasion.

David Hirsch: Wow. Well, I don’t know that there’s any more that can be said than that. That’s a very powerful, visual that you’ve created in my mind. And, thank you for the insight about the, authenticity of the movie. The, places that, were depicted, the people that were included, and some of the actual, items like your, wife’s wedding dress. Right. I don’t know. Just, the attention to detail is. It’s insane, actually.

John O’Leary: Well, when you watch the conversation with John and Dad on the screen porch. That’s my. That’s my mom and dad’s house. When you watch the explosion, that’s their garage. When you see them fight around the kitchen table, that’s our kitchen table. So this isn’t, what a sweet Hollywood story on a blue screen.

David Hirsch: Yeah.

John O’Leary: This is a very ordinary, broken and redeemed family trying their very best to figure out life during very murky situations, but doing so with profound faith and great joy. And so the moments you see captured in the movie were filmed where they actually happen in real life.

David Hirsch: Very powerful.

I’m wondering if there’s any advice you can share with parents raising a special needs child

I’m thinking about advice, and I’m wondering if there’s any advice you can share with parents, especially dads, raising a child, with a disability. your parents found themselves in that situation, raising you. Right. Just in a blink of an eye, you know, the world changes. so I’m thinking, what advice can you offer our dads, our listeners?

John O’Leary: The first advice I would give them is none.

David Hirsch: None.

John O’Leary: There’s enough bumper stickers out there, like, read the guy in front of you, and there’s your advice. But I think we need to know that we’re not alone. I think we need to know that this journey is worthy. I think we need to know that there is no quick fix. There’s no book on this one. I think we need to know that, you’re not doing it wrong. I think we need to know that just because families seem to have it perfect as they walk down the street in front of you, as you wheel down behind them, that their family is also broken in different ways. But I also think we can recognize that in the midst of struggle, we can find beauty. And what I found as a child who spent nine years in perfection and then spent years and then ultimately decades in agony, was the more I could turn my attention to see the beauty in the circumstances, the more my life itself began to turn in line right behind it. that was true when I did not know it, but it is even more true now. Like, as you and I are having this conversation, man, like, I have scars from my neck to my toes. I have infections on various parts of my body. Right now I’m running a fever today. So people think, like, well, good for him. He’s got to figure it out. I don’t. And neither did my parents. Even as we kiss goodbye to my dad. And my mom never had it figured out if she’s guiding a kid with special needs through school as she’s at home with him when all of his buddies are at the Dance. It was never an easy story, but they embraced their story. And in time, that story was redeemed to such a degree that Hollywood came knocking. And I don’t know when Hollywood’s going to come knocking. It may not be this. This side of eternity, but it will come. And that that day will be awesome. So I just encourage your

00:25:00

John O’Leary: awesome listeners not to take my advice, but to look in the mirror and recognize you already got enough. You’re, making a difference as you are. You’re loving the one in front of you. That’s where it starts. And, it will make perfect sense in time. Hang on for the ride.

David Hirsch: Words of wisdom. Thank you for sharing.

John O. Leary: My mom and dad have had two house fires

Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

John O’Leary: I’ll say this. My mom and dad have had two house fires. And, in the first one, I caused it. And the second one, it was a toaster that did not pop up, and they were outside weeding. So in the first, before I got burned, there was a sign that hung in our front hall that said, this too shall pass. And that was when my dad’s business was thriving and six kids were healthy and the dog was fat and plump, like everything was good. And when they rebuilt the house, they hung that sign up, and it reminded them that in the struggles, this too shall pass. And then they lost their house a second time years later. And my mom went on and she bought that sign again.

David Hirsch: Oh, jeez.

John O’Leary: So if you ever come into my house, you’ll see this little sign, this too shall pass. So I will remind your listeners who are on top of the world, have some humble pie, because this too shall pass. And I will remind your listeners who feel like the weight of the world is on their shoulders to hang on for it, that this too shall pass. God is still God, the foundation is still firm, and the best is yet to come. So, that would be my last bit of advice. This too shall pass. Hang on for the ride.

David Hirsch: Thank you. If somebody wants to contact you, what’s the best way to do so?

John O’Leary: I mean, the. The landing page is John O. Inspires.com. so John O. Inspires.com and on that website, you’ll see my email, my number, our address. You’ll see books and podcasts. You’ll see a link to the film. The film’s on Netflix and Amazon right now. Still in some theaters, but it’s just a cool way to stay in touch. You can join the mailing list. We don’t charge for anything. So, John O’ LearyInspires.com is a pretty good place to take your first step.

David Hirsch: John, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, John is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, Please go to 21st Century Dads.org Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Data dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free. To all concern. Would you please consider making a tax equal contribution? I would really appreciate your support John. Thanks again.

John O’Leary: Yes sir. Well done dad to the dad. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and whole.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs to match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st.

David Hirsch: Centurydads.Org and if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david2stcenturydadsuh.org the dad.

Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast features great conversations with great dads

David Hirsch: To dad Podcast theme was written and performed by Shane Madden. The show was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

John O’Leary: Through every season, in every stride, Great dads are present. 247-36-524-7365.

00:29:08