296 – Adam Goldman of Houston, TX Reflects On The Loss Of Their Pre-Mature Twins Shortly After Birth

Transcript:

Tom Couch: [00:00:00] Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, working tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics’ mission at HorizonTherapeutics. com.

Adam Goldman: Once unfortunately my twins passed away, it was healthy for me to dig into my new business. What I’m really proud of as a family is that Dori and I, we just said, okay, this happened and we’re going to go ahead and build our family now. And so our daughter, Amelia, was born in October of 2011.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Adam Goldman, a real estate investor, serial entrepreneur, coaching consultant, and author of the book, The Franchisee Lifestyle. Adam is father to five children, including twins, who very sadly passed away shortly after they were born. In spite of that, Adam’s got a positive outlook on life, which we’ll hear on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad [00:01:00] Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network, and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, and thanks for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast, presented by the Special Fathers Network, a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

The Special Fathers Network MasterMind group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads Foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending an in-person weekend retreat We’re launching 10 new MasterMind groups in 2024 with 10 dads per group. That means we’re only looking for 10 like-minded dads in each community. If you’re a dad raising a child with special needs, we hope you’ll join a local MasterMind group and make the investment to become the best version of yourself. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to [00:02:00] 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen in on this conversation between Adam Goldman and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Adam Goldman of Houston, Texas, a real estate investor, franchise consultant, father of five, including twins who very sadly passed away shortly after they were born. Adam, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Adam Goldman: Thank you so much, David.

David Hirsch: You and your wife, Dori, have been married for 15 years and are the proud parents of five children: Lila, 6; Dalia, 8; Amelia, 12; as well as twins, Eli and Ariella, who were born at 23 weeks in 2010 and very sadly passed away shortly after their birth. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Adam Goldman: So grew up in Millington, New Jersey. It was on the Erie Lackawanna line to get to New York City. [David laughing] My dad commuted to get into the city. It was an interesting place to grow up. We had really good Italian food. Lots of Italians in my neighborhood. And when I was a teenager, I moved to Cincinnati, Ohio. My dad’s company relocated from the city, New [00:03:00] York City, to Cincinnati.

David Hirsch: And did you have any brothers or sisters growing up?

Adam Goldman: My brother is two years younger than me. His name is Andy. And he also went to U of I and he lives in Glen Ellyn.

David Hirsch: Really? Okay. We’ll have a little bit more to talk about when we get there. I’m curious to know, what did your dad do for a living?

Adam Goldman: He did IT, right? Systems before systems were cool and Amazon existed. And he did it for National Starch and Chemicals. It was the official jelly bean of Ronald Reagan. So got some jelly beans when I was growing up, which were really tasty. I still have this affinity for jelly beans. And he also worked for Schering-Plough and his job that I remember the best is when he worked for a department store that got bought by Dillard’s. That’s the one that moved us to Cincinnati.

David Hirsch: So you mentioned National Starch. I thought they were Jelly Bellys. Is that the company that makes Jelly Bellys?

Adam Goldman: That’s a company that at least back in the day, I’m not really sure about right now, but back in the day, they made Jelly Belly jelly beans.

David Hirsch: Okay, good enough. So I’m curious now, how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Adam Goldman: Very close, very warm. I worry about him now. My [00:04:00] mom recently passed away. He’s going to be 82 and not in the world’s best physical shape, right? Still great mentally and we’re in this new stage where he’s on his own and I’m here helping him out and it’s a really new, nice new chapter for both of us.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Very sorry to hear your mom passed away recently. Yeah, it can be an adjustment, right? When one of your parents passes that creates a void or a vacuum. And some people make those transitions easier than others. So I’m thinking about takeaways. Are there are some important takeaways from your relationship with your dad, a lesson learned, something you perhaps tried to incorporate into your own parenting?

Adam Goldman: When I think of my dad, I think of a guy that has unbelievable EQ, the kind of person that just cares about others around him. For instance, he lives at a senior living facility. There’s a friend of his that before was eating in his room. For whatever reason he didn’t want to eat downstairs. And he’s like, “Come on, let’s go together. Let’s eat together in the dining room.” And that’s just putting other people first, an idea of mentality towards service. When I was growing up, he was in the [00:05:00] JCs and he has the same service mindset now. Just a good human being.

David Hirsch: And were there any other men perhaps that played a father figure role, influence on you as a younger guy?

Adam Goldman: When I was a freshman in high school in Millington, New Jersey, going to Wachung Hills Regional High School, I had this job that just changed my life. I saw some sort of advertisement at the school. They were looking for a sanitation engineer or cleaner at this racquets club. And I was an awkward 15 year old. And so this guy, his name was Tony Pasella. It was a place called the Wachung Warren Racquets Club. I got to play a little bit of tennis and learn a little bit of racquetball. And he just took me under his wing. Like I could tell he cared about me as a person. And what’s really fascinating about him, I actually graduated from doing sanitation to being a weekend manager. It was like he cared so much about me, but there wasn’t really much of an agenda. It was just kind of mentorship from a very pure standpoint. I called him back like 20 years later and just thanked him. And he didn’t even [00:06:00] remember who I was, which I thought made the story even more interesting ]David chuckles] because he just had such an impact on me.

David Hirsch: Yeah it’s pretty amazing that he’s probably just done that with a number of people, right? You were just one of many people, perhaps, that he invested in. Didn’t think twice about it. And it’s nice that you recognize that had an impact on your life and that you gave him that call or reached back out to him. I think of those as like the special dividends we get in life every once in a while, just out of the blue. You get something that you weren’t anticipating, that you weren’t even thinking about. And I think it’s important to reflect on some of the people that have been an influence on us. I think of them as some of the angels that appeared in our lives. You don’t know it at the time, but you can look back and say, hey, if it wasn’t for that person or this person, I might not be the person I am today.

I’m thinking about your education. One of the things we have in common is we took degrees from the University of Illinois in Urbana Champaign. You were an econ and history major, and I’m wondering, where did you think your career was going to take you? Where did it take you?

Adam Goldman: I had no idea what it was going to do when I [00:07:00] graduated. I remember going to a career advisor in history. And she said, “Yeah, a lot of people that study history, they go to work in the government or something.” So that was an interesting career path. I just stumbled into this career of entrepreneurship after school. I had an internship in Eastern Europe with an organization called AIESEC. That is just like an acronym for international economic students. And I started out in Budapest, worked for the Budapest Business Journal for a couple of years selling ad space in print media.

And then one of my clients hired me to start their company in Poland from Hungary. So made my way to Poland afterwards. And then what I did was I saw this unique niche or need in the Polish market for data. Started my own IT company. This was in the field of consumer goods. I provided scanning data to different consumer goods companies like Procter & Gamble that allowed them to make decisions in different retail chains in Poland that was like the Polish equivalent of Costco or Sam’s Club or Kroger.

David Hirsch: Was that [00:08:00] the United Transfer?

Adam Goldman: That’s correct. United Transfer was the first one. The company that I started was called Market IQ.

David Hirsch: And it had to do with scanning coupons and data to have a better understanding of the customer?

Adam Goldman: It was more scanning data, meaning about how much was sold in a specific warehouse and being able to act upon that data.

David Hirsch: And I know that you took some time off to get your MBA at University of California, Berkeley.

Adam Goldman: Yep.

David Hirsch: I’m wondering, how’d you choose Berkeley, and what different trajectory did it put you on?

Adam Goldman: I chose Berkeley just because, at the time, I was looking for a place that was very tech-focused, right? And the Silicon Valley is the tech destination. What I really realized by this was that I really didn’t want to work for anyone else. And so I made my way to Texas because it had low taxes and also had warm weather and also had a tech industry. Started in Austin, moved to Houston. Started a real estate investment company in Texas. I still own some owner- financed properties. And stumbled again into [00:09:00] the franchising space.

Right after the great recession of 2008, I was in this career transition. Talked to a franchise coach recommended by one of my great friends. And she’s like, “Hey, you should really look at this business. It’s an office cleaning master franchise called Vanguard Cleaning.” And just really got excited about this because it was a kind of business which allowed me to build a business that wasn’t very inventory heavy. And it was something where different franchisees that were helping to support their family, seeing them build their business and also finding accounts for them as well was just a really great career path for about eight and a half years.

David Hirsch: So the first franchise opportunity was Vanguard Cleaning?

Adam Goldman: That’s correct. That’s the only franchise that I invested in. I went ahead and I had an exit from that business. The person that owned the regions next to me decided to give me an unsolicited offer for Houston. And so what I’ve been doing since is – again, happened by accident – I’ve been a coaching consultant in franchising, meaning a vast portfolio of pre-screened franchise [00:10:00] brands in 75 different industries hires me. And what happens is I’m here to connect potential franchisee candidates with these different brands.

David Hirsch: And I know along the way, you’ve written at least one audio book or recorded one audio book, The Franchisee Lifestyle audio book. What’s that about?

Adam Goldman: That’s really about just the whole misconception, David, about franchising. In my opinion, people when they think franchising, the first thing they think is, number one, McDonald’s and number two, I’m going to be flipping burgers in the back. And as a Chicago native, you can relate to McDonald’s, but again, I have 75 different industries. And what I’m finding now with unemployment being 3 percent is everyone wants some sort of a side hustle or a path away from corporate America. And so I’m talking more about how to achieve the lifestyle you want through franchising and actually using examples of people that have been able to have a lifestyle like this through franchising, where you’re semi absentee as opposed to an owner operator.

David Hirsch: And compare and contrast say multi-level marketing to the type of business that you’re talking about.

Adam Goldman: When I think of multi-level marketing, I [00:11:00] think about Amway, right? I think about Cutco, right? When I think about franchising, I’m thinking about something where it’s a proven model. It might be Orange Theory Fitness. It might be McDonald’s. It’s a brand. And it’s also a system, right? Where it’s your own business. And yes, you have to pay royalty fees and you also have to pay franchise fees. People tell me that the amount that they save and the mistakes that they would have made if they started something on their own, as opposed to getting all this value in a great franchise, it could be really worth it with the right sort of connection.

David Hirsch: And if you had to identify one of these different 75 industries that you made reference to, where do you think the growth is? Where do you think the next hot area might be?

Adam Goldman: That’s such a great question because if you and I were speaking in 2019, I’d say, oh my gosh, 80 percent or 90 percent of my placements are retail and service retail is great. And look, I’m still doing some retail placements, but it’s really flipped in the past five years where a lot of my candidates really see the value in non brick and mortar service businesses. I’m not saying anything [00:12:00] against having a brick and mortar retail, but leases can be expensive. And the advantage of the right non brick and mortar service is you can start quicker. Asset-light businesses are really in vogue and I really like these service companies right now.

David Hirsch: Can you give me an example of one or two?

Adam Goldman: Sure. So I’m not saying that I’d connect you with this in Chicago [David laughing], but if you were in Houston and a potential candidate – I’m not going to mention any specific brand names – I think that mosquito spraying is a fantastic business. They’re not going away. My daughter had a mosquito in her room last night and just the whole idea of a recurring revenue business with high margins is appealing for certain people.

David Hirsch: Okay. Thanks for sharing. We could probably have a whole other conversation about franchising and business, but maybe we’ll do that with a follow up interview.

So switching gears, I’m curious to know, how did you and Dori meet?

Adam Goldman: We got set up by friends. So I was in Houston, was involved with a youth group and they said, hey, you really have to meet my friend. And we had a great first date and we clicked and the rest is history.

David Hirsch: Would you say that was like a blind date? First date?

Adam Goldman: It was a setup.

David Hirsch: Okay. [00:13:00]

Adam Goldman: But I hadn’t seen her picture ahead of time. Just met her.

David Hirsch: Okay. Thank you for sharing. So let’s talk about your journey as parents. I’m curious to know, prior to the twins premature birth, did you or Dori have any connection to the world of disability or special needs, if you will?

Adam Goldman: I did. Number one, I remember when my dad was actually one of these people that is someone that kind of introduced me to it. There was someone in the JCs, his name was Paul, and Paul was disabled somehow. And my dad was just so kind to this guy, just treated him like a prince, basically. And that was a really good role model.

In Poland, through friends, I got to see relatives of theirs that were disabled. And that was very sad because the whole idea of disability in Poland, especially in rural Poland, which is much different than Warsaw, it’s just a totally different type of situation. I don’t think they really knew how to go about it with someone that was disabled then.

David Hirsch: Yeah if I understand what you’re saying – it’s here in America as well – it’s different if you have a disability and you’re in a large urban area versus being in a remote or [00:14:00] rural area, especially if you’re like in a wheelchair. It’s really difficult to get around. And I’m just going to brag on the University of Illinois since we both took degrees from there. What a progressive school, what a progressive community Champaign Urbana is. Because after World War II, they really made an effort to accommodate wounded veterans, right? Which morphed into a lot of the work that’s been done around the country as a role model for people with disability, particularly wheelchair handicapped people. And it’s like the epicenter for people who are adaptive athletes, right? If you’re in a wheelchair and you’re in high school, U of I is at the top of the list, literally, because the community is completely embracing and accepting, inclusive of people with disability.

Thanks for sharing about your influences, perhaps before you became parents yourself. And did Dori have any insights or experience along these lines as well?

Adam Goldman: So something that we had here at Houston and I know I shouldn’t be bragging on J.J. Watt because he [00:15:00] wasn’t a University of Illinois linebacker, but he’s, in my opinion, the most amazing Texan. When he was here in Houston, someone in our community got into a tragic car accident. It was a family of five. The mother and dad passed away. The daughter was okay because she was in a car seat, but the two boys both became paralyzed. And so J.J. Watt was just so instrumental in helping them out throughout this episode. And I believe that the sons, that’s the Berry family, they’ve actually become basketball stars for wheelchair basketball. But just a really inspiring story here in Houston with something that happened tragically when we were younger, for Dori and I.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Other than the premature birth, was there a diagnosis that was associated with the twins?

Adam Goldman: So look, anytime that a baby’s born at 23 weeks, there’s going to be a host of challenges. We didn’t specifically get this, but you’re looking at least at cerebral palsy, potentially. My daughter, Ariella, she had an episode that came out of nowhere where she had a heart attack and she barely survived the heart attack, but just in a very reduced state. And the doctor said that if she [00:16:00] were to survive longer, she survived about a day or two afterwards, that it would have been a really hard path for her.

David Hirsch: So how long did she live? How long did Eli live?

Adam Goldman: Eli lived for three hours. Ariella lived for 30 days.

David Hirsch: Wow. I can’t even imagine, right? You’re pregnant, you’re excited about having twins. Maybe you didn’t know that right away, but you learned that going in for ultrasounds. And then you learn that there’s a problem or challenge. And what was the situation? How did it evolve?

Adam Goldman: Something called PROM, which means a premature rupture of membrane. It’s just something where your membrane just prematurely explodes. My wife had amniotic fluid that came out and we’re like, this is very strange. She was 16 weeks in. And credit to her, she was able to keep the babies in and safe for seven weeks, but she just could not go any farther. And we wanted with all of our heart for them to last longer than 23 weeks, but they just couldn’t stay in any longer.

David Hirsch: How much do they weigh when they were born?

Adam Goldman: Under two pounds each.

David Hirsch: Wow. So they’re itsy bitsy things, right?

Adam Goldman: Yes.

David Hirsch: And can you remember back during [00:17:00] those first 30 days what some of the concerns or fears you had as young parents were?

Adam Goldman: The NICU is just a scary, intimidating place. There’s lots of beeping noises. You’re not sure how well she’s doing. Is she going to be okay? Does she have the right nurse that’s taking care of her? ‘Cause not every nurse is created equally. All these things going through your mind and you’re just like… Also people very generously, the ones that are donating milk, you want to make sure that she’s fed properly. I just take it day by day. And it really came as a shock for us. It looked like she was doing pretty well when she had this infection.

David Hirsch: It’s not lost on me that she’s in the NICU, Eli passed away and now you’re thinking geez, we have to make funeral arrangements and how are we going to deal with all that? And the situation just seems to be very tenuous. Was there any advice you got, either from healthcare professionals, family members, others that helped you get through that sort of dark period of time?

Adam Goldman: What I want to say is this: that we had a choice to make, and it was a very hard choice to make. [00:18:00] We could keep our twins in this NICU unit, or we could potentially – or sorry, just Ariella, because Eli already passed away. We could keep her there, or we could move her to another NICU. And we grappled with that because we were afraid she wouldn’t make it. This is before her infection. And that it wouldn’t be a good transfer. So that’s something that was very hard for us to make a decision on. We ultimately decided to keep her at her specific NICU. But sometimes you ask yourself, what if? What if she was at the other NICU unit instead? Would this infection have happened?

David Hirsch: Not to focus on the negative, but what were some of the bigger challenges that you encountered at that time or perhaps subsequently?

Adam Goldman: This is such an interesting time in that, not interesting but just really challenging, because we had this challenge with our kids, but also at the same time, my mother-in-law was diagnosed with glioblastoma. When it rains it pours, right? So we had this health challenge with our kids and also the mother-in-law. When I look back on it, I’m actually really proud. I also, from the same point too, I started Vanguard Cleaning at the same time as well. So invest in this franchise business, get ready to go. And all of a [00:19:00] sudden this situation happens within a couple of weeks of opening. And it was just, how do you do this?

And from what I hear, people go either one of two ways. Once unfortunately my twins passed away, it was healthy for me to dig into my new business. What I’m really proud of as a family is that Dori and I, we just said, okay, this happened and we’re going to go ahead and build our family now. And so our daughter, Amelia, was born in October of 2011.

David Hirsch: So you’re able to get pregnant right away. That’s what it sounds like.

Adam Goldman: Yep.

David Hirsch: And that must have been a relief after having gone through this very challenging experience that you were just describing.

Adam Goldman: And I feel like Amelia in many ways is a miracle child. It’s very hard to have a pregnancy after a ruptured membrane. You have a chance of having a relapse of the ruptured membrane and thank God that Amelia’s pregnancy was smooth and went well.

David Hirsch: And out of curiosity, what happened with your mother-in-law?

Adam Goldman: She passed away, unfortunately.

David Hirsch: Oh my. So you had three deaths within a relatively short period of time.

Adam Goldman: That’s correct.

David Hirsch: A generation ahead of you, which is [00:20:00] not expected because she died at relatively early age. And losing a child is considered to be one of a parent’s worst nightmares. They call us the sandwich generation because we’re usually taking care of our parents and our kids, but in this case, it’s just the opposite, right? You experienced loss, above you and below you, if you will. Which is just, how could you possibly be prepared for that?

Adam Goldman: You can’t.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents Survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a Great Dad Coin. Thank you. Now, back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: What impact has that situation, losing the twins, had on [00:21:00] your marriage or perhaps your extended family for that matter?

Adam Goldman: Let’s talk about the relationship with me and my daughters, right? I think I would have been a good dad regardless, right? But this, if anything, in the back of my mind, it’s wait a second here. This is all you got, right? With their siblings, they only lasted for three hours or 30 days. I’m going to make the most of every moment. I’m going to be present. I’m not perfect, right? But I’m going to make every effort possible to be that dad that’s loving and protecting.

David Hirsch: Yeah, you have a better appreciation than most just because of your lived experience for how fragile life is, right? We know it is. There’s documentation of that all around us, but it’s different if you’re just dealing with it intellectually versus having that lived experience. So no doubt you’re a more present father, right? Physically, emotionally, spiritually present. Has it had much of an impact on your marriage?

Adam Goldman: You know what? I think that we both, we don’t talk about it very much, the loss of our kids. I think that together, I think if Dori was in this room speaking to you as [00:22:00] well, I think she’d say that she has a higher appreciation for motherhood with knowing that we’ve lost our twins as well.

David Hirsch: And you did mention, not lost on me, that you had some miscarriages before that.

Adam Goldman: That’s correct.

David Hirsch: That doesn’t seem as consequential, but it’s real. I can relate to that. We had two miscarriages and then we lost one of our twins early on in the pregnancy which is our second daughter would have been instead of twins. And I think that there’s a healing process that goes on with each of those losses. And then thank God, like you were saying, you were able to have more children, right? As opposed to that being your parenting experience, right? And I think it does make you a little bit more resilient, more grateful for what you have as opposed to what’s not here.

And do you do anything on the anniversary of the births just to reflect on their lives or to remember them at all?

Adam Goldman: We do. Especially for Ariella, right? We go ahead and remember, and we just remember her anniversary every year. We light a candle in her honor.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. So I’m thinking [00:23:00] about spirituality and I’m wondering what role spirituality has played in your lives.

Adam Goldman: For me, spirituality is just a framework for dealing with the good and also the not so good in your life, right? Being able to understand that this is a situation that’s happening. This isn’t the first time this is happening. But I think now with my mom passed away, I take faith in the fact that I’m not alone. I have a community around me. I’ve just been blown away by how amazing people were when Dori and I lost our twins. And also when I lost my mom, I’m just forever grateful for how many people have come out of the woodwork. People I didn’t expect that really care. And that didn’t even know her, but went out of the way for me. In itself, the community makes me more spiritual myself.

David Hirsch: Yeah, it’s really powerful. Yeah. It is important to understand that you’re not alone, even though it can be lonely, when there’s loss. And that there’s this embrace that you feel from a larger community, whether it’s a religious community or just the overall community.

And I’m wondering under the banner of advice, if there’s any advice that you can share with a parent or dad in particular, who [00:24:00] finds himself in a similar situation where he’s experienced consequential loss early on, or maybe he’s raising a child with a disability.

Adam Goldman: Look, I’m not always perfect myself, but I’m a huge believer in mental health. And I think that mental health is a choice in many ways. Just to have the right sort of attitude about things and not getting bogged into the negative. Put one foot in front of the other, just trying to move on and never, not necessarily forgetting what happened, but just focusing on the good and what can happen next. That’s been powerful for me.

David Hirsch: One of the other dads coined this phrase: “relentless forward motion.” You just need to keep moving forward, regardless of how difficult or challenging the situation is physically, emotionally challenging it might be. So thank you for emphasizing that.

Adam Goldman: Was it Padma said, if you’re going through hell, keep going?

David Hirsch: It’s very possible. It sounds like something he would say if he didn’t say it. Let’s give a special shout out to Nisa Manog at the [00:25:00] FranchiseCoach.net for helping connect us.

Adam Goldman: Wonderful.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about your book, The Franchisee Lifestyle audiobook, or to contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Adam Goldman: So my website, FranchiseCoach.net, has lots of information about the free service that I provide to candidates in order to find the right franchise business.

David Hirsch: And do you have an email address that is useful to be in contact?

Adam Goldman: Sure, it’s AGoldman@ franchisecoach. net.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include both those references in the show notes, so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up with you. Adam, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Adam is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father, or If you are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads Foundation is a 501c3 [00:26:00] nonprofit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax-deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Adam, thanks again.

Adam Goldman: Thank you, David.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturyDads. org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook.com, groups, and search “dad to dad.” Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to [00:27:00] David@21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch.

Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics who believe that science and compassion must work together. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop, and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at HorizonTherapeutics.com