321 – Sam Farmer of North Easton, MA Father, Author, Autistic & Self Advocate

Transcript:

Tom Couch: Special thanks to Horizon Therapeutics for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Working tirelessly to research, develop and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics mission at horizontherapeutics.com.

Sam Farmer: You’re good the way you are. Your autism you can look at as a way of being, not something that has to be fixed or cured. And that, that to me is a more healthy outlook on things that ideally more neurodivergent individuals would adopt that point of view.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Sam Farmer. Sam is an IT consultant, a neurodiversity self advocate, an autistic speaker, and author of the book A Long Walk Down a Winding Road, Small Steps Challenges and Triumphs Through an Autistic Lens. He has a 16 year old son who’s autistic. It’s a compelling conversation and we’ll hear it on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Two short messages. First, I’d like to thank those who donated more than $1,000 to the 2024 cycled and father Absence Campaign. In alphabetical order. They are Ina Byrd, Irene and Tom Costello, Kim Duchess, Damian Navarro, Brad Surratt, Don Stadler and UBS Financial Services. If you haven’t already done so, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org and donate today. Secondly, I’d like to invite you to attend the 4th Annual Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group weekend retreat taking place at the Hyatt Regency Chicago, September 6th through the 8th. Attendance is free for Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group Dads. Other dads can attend for a small cost. We’re budgeting for 30 dads this year and it’s sure to be a memorable experience for all involved. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen in on this conversation between Sam Farmer and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Sam Farmer of North Easton, Massachusetts, who’s an information technology consultant, a neurodiversity advocate, autistic writer, author and speaker, a husband, a father of a son with autism and himself was diagnosed later in life with Asperger’s. Sam, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Sam Farmer: Thank you very much, Dave. Great to be with you, you and.

David Hirsch: Your wife have been married for 23 years and are the proud parents of a 16 year old son who is autistic. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Sam Farmer: All right, so I grew up in Princeton, New Jersey, where the university is about a mile down the road. Born 1969, just shy of 3 years old. Diagnosed as learning disabled, in this case with respect to auditory processing learning disability. As a result of that, my early grade school years were spent in the special education classroom. And then starting in second grade, a little bit of special ed and a little bit of mainstreaming Dave, in the general education classroom. And that, if memory serves, I think it was by fifth grade, certainly by fifth grade, maybe by fourth grade I had worked hard enough and done well enough to have become 100% gen ed. And there are reasons for that that I write about in the book. Primarily around what I’ve referred to as kind of internalized ableism in ways where I could never accept being different or being in the special ed classroom. That my primary motivation for working as hard as I did was to try to leave that behind and become 100% gen ed. So really, depending upon how you look at it, becoming a, 100% gen ed student later in my elementary school career, sure, all well and good. But on the flip side, it indicated really my inability at that age, which I accept in retrospect that at that age I could not accept my learning disability. Being different and not having that kind of self acceptance is

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Sam Farmer: something I regret.

David Hirsch: Well, thank you for, mentioning that. So we’ve got a preview of the interview to come. I want to go back a little bit. When you were growing up, you were the youngest of three boys. So you had an older brother, George, and another older brother, Jacob. I’m sort, of curious to know. What did your dad do for a living?

Sam Farmer: My dad was a ear, nose and throat doctor. Did facial plastic surgery as well. Really excelled at what he did. Was beloved in the community for the degree to which he genuinely cared about his patients. I learned firsthand by example really what hard work and dedication meant, really through both of my parents. But seeing how hard my father worked, whether during the week, on the weekends, during vacations, if I could even call it that for him, that he just kept working. He loved his work, core to who he was. Everybody loved him for it. People would complain often about, about long wait times in the waiting room of not actually being seen closer to the time of their appointment, but they understood why that was, it was because he often would take the extra time with patients if he felt it was warranted to really do right by his patients. In a nutshell, that really was what my father was about, the doctor side of him.

David Hirsch: So I’m sort of curious to know. How would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Sam Farmer: Positive, solid. The acceptance was there, how I was treated, the things that he did to help me. Chief among them, that he played a key role in steering me towards activities. Dave. That he knew I wouldn’t just enjoy, but that I would be proficient at ah, in order to help my self esteem to the extent that he could. Understanding that as a learning disabled child that that would be very important. Both my parents understood that very well. And so recognizing that I have the tall, thin build of a distance runner, it was him who encouraged me to run cross country. Being a squash player, he recognized in me an ability with the racket. Tennis ended up being a fit for me. I was able to do pretty well with tennis, well enough to be able to compete for my middle and high school on the tennis team. And chief, among them music, where music runs back many generations on his side of the family, that steering me towards music was huge, as I write about in the book. So in all those respects, in my view he really did quite well as a father. I have no regrets having had him as a father.

David Hirsch: Thank you for sharing. You made reference to his work ethic, which you admired. The way he was beloved by the community. Are there any other important takeaways that come to mind when you think about your dad?

Sam Farmer: Just easygoing, which I think that’s a big aspect of him that I inherited. Just easygoing, take things in stride, friendly, caring, as I mentioned earlier in connection with his work as a medical doctor and not just working hard, but teaching me. And it stuck. To really take care in doing things right. He was a big stickler on that sometimes to the extent that it would drive me a little crazy. But you either do it right or you don’t do it at all. And I see a lot of value in that. But he instilled that attitude in me in a way that was not overly imposing or coercive in any way, not controlling in any way. He did it in a positive way, you know, without any real punishment, in a way that was aware of my sensitivities, my vulnerabilities. But to teach and to teach constructively, those sorts of things.

David Hirsch: Is there a story that comes to mind, incident that emphasizes that point.

Sam Farmer: Cleaning the fish tank in his office. Algae would gather on the sides of the fish tank and in order to really get it clean

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Sam Farmer: properly, it wouldn’t be just skimming the surface of the water, but it would be having to scrape the sides of that fish tank to get all the green algae off the sides, where he said to me, look, if you’re gonna do this right, you gotta do it through and through, including the scraping that I know you don’t want to do, but you need to do it because otherwise the fish tank won’t be cleaned for real in the way that it should.

David Hirsch: You had mentioned that the music gene runs deep generationally in your family. And I’m wondering if you can talk about your grandfather Willie a little bit.

Sam Farmer: Grandpa Bill was really something else, like my father. Very warm, very friendly, very loving. I have very fond memories of our visits in Florida. He never really gave me a hard time about anything. He was just the warm, loving grandfather. His music career began in a very unexpected, very remarkable fashion in that his brother, my great uncle, told him, look, my band is without a drummer. You’ve got two weeks to learn the drums and then you’re hitting the road with us. And that was when he was around 14 years old and I believe started out as a violin player, which my great grandfather and my great great grandfather before him were violinists. In his mind they were lousy, but they did well enough to make a living out of it in Russia, which is where his side of the family had been from. And so you have this 14 year old who never played drums, who was told to learn them quick and hit the road. And that was in 1919, at the age of 14. So born 1905, and that was with the Carl Fenton Orchestra, which really was, as I understand it, the start of big things to come. In later years he played drums, did a little bit of singing, and was a band leader for Willie Farmer and his orchestra. A Google search on Willie Farmer will expose a good chunk of his discography. And he met with, really good success. He played Radio City Music hall, he played at the Waldorf Astoria. Mostly band leading, drumming, little bit of singing. And my brother has a letter from the great Cole Porter written by Cole Porter to my grandfather, admiring how good he thought my grandfather’s orchestra sounded one night, which is obviously a cherished family possession that we have framed. And, it wasn’t until round about age 79 that as a member of the Miami, Florida Musicians Union, he kind of basically retired at that point. But not until age 79, which interestingly is around the time when my father stopped practicing medicine that, my father retired. So in that way, my father followed suit with respect to his father, my grandfather. So great success.

David Hirsch: I love that story. Thank you for sharing.

Sam Farmer: I’ve been fortunate in that respect. Yes.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, you’ve had, some good genes. That’s what I think. Do you think that, your interest in music, emanated from your grandfather, or was it just your father or.

Sam Farmer: Both, really both. I mean, my father chose a different career path. So did his sister, my Aunt Judy. They ended up doing different things. But my father was still a musician. He played all kinds of instruments. He played for a good length of time in a Dixieland jazz band in Princeton when I was growing up. And for years after I had moved on from Princeton. He was that kind of person. If the band had a needle, he fulfilled it, even if it meant having to switch instruments. But he did what needed to be done for the good of the group.

David Hirsch: So my recollection was that you went to Oberlin College, you took a degree in music history, and then from there you went to university, of Arizona. And, were thinking about teaching and I’m wondering, where did your career take you?

Sam Farmer: So after six years of higher education, four at Oberlin, two at the University of Arizona, all six years spent doing music. So after a handful of essentially dead end jobs that just didn’t work out, I eventually landed on information technology, starting out doing phone support for AOL for America Online. That work lasted for about a year, year and a half, after which I arrived at, Cambridge Computer. And I’ve been with Cambridge computer. It’ll be 28 years come mid June. with autistic individuals, commonly including me, when we find ourselves in the right employment situation with the right kinds of people, we tend to remain loyal. Loyalty often runs very deep with us. So between AOL and Cambridge Computer, that’s my work in information technology running upwards to 30 years now between the two.

David Hirsch: Thank you for sharing. It is interesting how some people study something like you studied music. I studied accounting, and it took me one year of high school accounting, four years of undergraduate accounting, three years of being an auditor and a tax accountant to realize maybe this isn’t what I want to do for a living.

Sam Farmer: Indeed, sometimes it works out that way. It may work out that way most times that not everybody ends up going into the field in which they major.

David Hirsch: Yeah, exactly.

Sam Farmer: And that’s perfectly fine because things change and people discover new things. They discover that where their Heart was earlier, might not be at present, the same as it had been, that you move on to something else. And sometimes things just pan out that way.

David Hirsch: Absolutely. So I’m sort of curious to know, how did you and your wife meet?

Sam Farmer: We met very randomly at a party and things just, went from there.

David Hirsch: So did you have a lot of common interests or did you have complementary.

Sam Farmer: Interests, in the performing arts? My wife with respect to dance and me with respect to my music. And we performed a couple of times together where I would play original music that I had written and she would choreograph and dance to it. For example, where she was a dance instructor at the time, her studio, like many would have end of year dance recitals. And at one such recital we performed together. And then at, an open mic night, we performed together at one such open mic one night. Those are the two performances I remember best that we did together. That was quite nice.

David Hirsch: It sounds like it solidified your relationship, working together like that.

Sam Farmer: It was nice. Yes. Those are fond memories.

David Hirsch: So let’s talk about special needs first on a personal level, your own situation, and then we’ll talk about your son and then beyond. So I’m sort of curious to know at what point did your mom and dad realize that you had different abilities?

Sam Farmer: So, my mother realized it, which is remarkable to me. A little shy of age three, I was only two years old. My mother was a psychology major. So as a social worker, she had, I think, the right outlook on things, the right mindset, the right level of awareness to notice certain things. She could look into my eyes and just tell that the words that she would be speaking to me would often just go over my head. Resultingly, as she understood and as I understand myself. I’m more of a visual learner than an auditory learner, but that’s how she knew. And so we visited with a local learning specialist in Princeton. The diagnosis was made of a learning disability in auditory processing. How I would process information, how

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Sam Farmer: I would process the world around me. And that had implications with respect to not just awareness of others, but around self awareness that I had very real challenges with. And as is common with autism, unbeknownst, but still, you know, very much there at the time, challenges with non verbal communication, which as you can perhaps imagine, Dave did a number on my attempts at dating and romance, really struggling not just with deciphering the nonverbal communication coming from other people, but my ability to use nonverbal communication myself.

David Hirsch: So I’m thinking about when you were in grade school, middle school years, high school, was it limited to these nonverbal communication challenges, or did you have other challenges when you reflect back on your experience?

Sam Farmer: Well, I had very quirky, very idiosyncratic behaviors that didn’t always rub people the right way. Social skills, you know, where I socialized differently back then and very much still. different is often unfortunately equated with deficient. And that’s a real tragic conflation, if that’s the right word to conflate the two, because they’re two very, very different things. But really around socialization, around my relatively strange, unusual behaviors, which rendered me vulnerable, as I write in my book, to bullying. Luckily, nothing that seriously injured me or that permanently scarred me, but certainly which did affect me and where I would learn over time how to rise above what I would get from various bullies, you know, growing up and into college. Nonetheless, I managed to varying degrees at different points in my childhood to, still have friends, people who were able to look past these types of challenges to see the good in me, men who saw value in associating with me in spite of those challenges or different types of behaviors. And again, that’s an area in which, admittedly, I think I’m quite fortunate that things panned out for me that way.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for sharing. I think one of the things I admire most about you, Sam, is your authenticity, your sort of matter of fact way of describing your situation. And were there some supporting organizations that you can look back and realize that if it wasn’t for this group or that group, that, I might not have been on the path or had the trajectory that you’ve had?

Sam Farmer: Well, first and foremost, my parents, my brothers, all of whom, all of whom always accepted me for who I was, no matter what, who loved me unconditionally. And not all, but a certain number of clinicians with whom I worked. Sophomore year of college was a particularly rough year for me where socially, a lot of things became aware that I hadn’t been aware of before. And that was really, really hard on me. As I write in the book that the clinician who my mother set me up with that summer after my sophomore year of college had wrapped up, did exceptional work with me in terms of helping me get on the track that I would remain on for quite some time with respect to self esteem building, he was quite good. I can think of maybe three other clinicians who I worked with in my adult years later on in life who really stuck out in terms of their kindness, their knowledge and their ability to help me with skills like nonverbal communication type, skills of being more aware and more considerate of how other people look at things. And who helped me to understand autism better.

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Sam Farmer: That in the wake of being diagnosed, I started to work with a number of clinicians who helped me greatly in terms of gaining a better understanding of my newfound identity. And then a bunch of other clinicians who in differing ways, unfortunately didn’t do much of anything for me. And in rare instances, luckily rare, but nonetheless, actually did some harm. Nothing irreparable. But, that unfortunately happens often with autistic individuals in clinical settings, particularly those who don’t understand autism very well, if at all. And that can sometimes lead to trauma. Trauma is a strong word, particularly in the context of when you’re working with a clinician who you’re paying to help you, not to traumatize you, but to help you. So really a mixed bag for me. But those clinicians, my family of origin, my wife certainly, and certain friends who had the courage to say things to me to make me aware of certain hard realities that actually, I’m grateful for, that a lot of lessons were learned. Granted the hard way, but they were learned thanks to a couple of friends I’ve had over the years, from whom I learned important lessons in a constructive way. They would make me aware of certain things that weren’t easy for me to hear, but they did it in a constructive fashion. And really that’s the key. Civility, being decent about things, being aware not just of what you’re saying, but how it’s being said that I’m fortunate I had friends who communicated these things to me in constructive ways. So really, all of these kinds of folks.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for emphasizing it’s a, village. That’s what I heard you describe. Your parents, your brothers, the clinicians, your wife, your friends, everybody’s played an important role. I’m thinking about institutions though, and I remember maybe it was in the book. Is there an organization that goes by the name Social thinking?

Sam Farmer: Correct. Social Thinking. I worked with a speech language pathologist who does her work in the social thinking methodology, which for me, really was a very helpful framework. I learned a great deal again about perspective taking, awareness of others, self awareness, nonverbal communication. I benefited greatly. I wrote an article X number of months ago on what I consider to be neurodiversity affirming therapy, and she was very much that, as was the clinician who I saw at the end of my sophomore year of college and long before the term Neurodiversity was even coined. I’ve made the argument that my parents very much raised me in a neurodiversity affirming fashion, for which, again, I’m very, very fortunate.

David Hirsch: Any other organizations or institutions that played, an instrumental role in your own situation?

Sam Farmer: I write in the book about the Asperger Autism Network, more recently rebranded the association for Autism and Neurodiversity. Either way you look at it, it’s always been aane.org aane.org but, at the time, the Asperger Autism Network had been instrumental in really helping me along. When my mother passed away and I eulogized her at her funeral, of all places, to come out as autistic. I chose to do so during that eulogy, because I wanted to give some context to all that my mother had done for me. And after the funeral, there were certain individuals in attendance who asked me to write out the eulogy as best I could and then to get it published, thinking that if I did that, it might go viral. That was a wonderful compliment. And I actually took them up on that. And it was the Asperger

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Sam Farmer: Autism Network, the executive director of whom knew my social thinking, speech language pathologist, who gave me my start at, writing in a way that would be published on the AANE blog site. And that was the start of my writing. And I ran with it from there. And my blogging eventually led to the book. And I write and continue to write to this day and intend to continue to.

David Hirsch: I love that story. And, there was a line in the book that really jumped out at me, and it has to do with your Asperger’s diagnosis. And it’s a direct quote. It says, nothing but good in my life as a result of the Asperger’s diagnosis.

Sam Farmer: Yeah, believe me, it was very, very difficult to take at first, not easy to hear at first. But with time, if you take the time to understand it, to really research it, learn about it, and to do so keeping the big picture in mind that this is not just about deficit and hardship, but that, with the autism spectrum, there are unique personality traits, abilities and talents associated. Again, looking at the big picture, beyond what I sometimes think of as the pathology narrative, which is a narrative that me and plenty of others of us in the advocate community are trying to flip the script on, you learn that there’s a lot to it. My challenges, my disabilities are a part of me. My abilities, my talents, my other personality traits, it all integrates together. Absolutely. That’s the healthy Outlook to have beyond just mere pathology.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, thanks for sharing. So I’d like to talk about your 16 year old son and I’m wondering at what age was he diagnosed?

Sam Farmer: Just shy of two years old.

David Hirsch: Okay.

Sam Farmer: Just shy of two.

David Hirsch: And as parents of a child who was diagnosed with autism, did you have any fears or concerns?

Sam Farmer: My biggest fear was really around bullying, Just drawing from my own lived experience. But at the same time, being diagnosed that young I think proved very, very helpful in the sense that the kind of help and the kind of support that we wanted for our son, we could get started on that earlier rather than later in life. The earlier the better, certainly. So at the same time there was that outlook that gave me hope. And he’s done quite well, thankfully, I think due in large part to the fact that my wife in particular has been a real stormtrooper for him in terms of, the provisions of his IEP in school, attending to the kinds of things that we wanted for him, that things have, I think panned out, pretty well thanks largely to her efforts. So a mixed bag. The benefits of an early diagnosis, but also the concerns of what’s he gonna go through. The fear of bullying. Thankfully that hasn’t happened. Like I write in the book, the people with whom we associate will either make us or break us. Thankfully, where we live, the right people to be surrounded with that. Thankfully, bullying hasn’t been a concern and hasn’t happened.

David Hirsch: Well, if I can summarize what you’ve said, he was diagnosed early, there’s been early intervention, he has an IEP, and you are both, very engaged as parents. Your wife, maybe the stormtrooper that you made reference to, and then your lived experience. Right. Informs you as parents as well. And I think that that obviously can work to your advantage. Right. Having an appreciation for, some of the things you experienced as a young person and knowing or understanding what your son must be going through as well.

Sam Farmer: Mostly my wife. Mostly my wife, because where I work full time, where I’m involved in my advocacy

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Sam Farmer: efforts, etc. She has had a lot more time with him and has been able to put in the kind of time that admittedly I haven’t been able to. So really what I try to do is I try to help. Clearly the financial support is critical. I’m very, very fortunate that I’m able to do that. But, really the bulk of the credit goes to my wife with respect to, my son’s advancement and his growth. And so I help them both in my own way to the extent that I can, granted what I have on my plate.

David Hirsch: Well, thanks for emphasizing that. Any interest in music?

Sam Farmer: Sure. Like his father takes piano lessons, enjoys them, does drama as well, spring track and other activities, but those are the big ones. So. Yes, as I have been a piano player really since 8th grade, he got started with it younger than I did. And as I believe I write in the book, I actually taught him myself a little bit when he was young enough that that could work out temporarily. For some time I was able to show him a few things and then he went on to study with other teachers. So piano is something there that we have in common.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: So let’s switch gears and talk about your book. The title of which is A Long Walk Down a Winding Small Steps Challenges and Triumphs Through an Autistic Lens. What motivated you to write the book?

Sam Farmer: a couple of things. Members of the AANE community, a few of them expressed a strong desire to have me write a book, largely because as I write in the book, I have a very novel family situation where I’m autistic, my son is, and my wife is non autistic. That’s referred to as a neurodiverse marriage. The novelty of that, they saw value in writing about that, but really just to try to help other people and to try to educate on what it can be like to live with autism from somebody who actually walks in these shoes. An autistic individual writing about autism based on lived experience with the hope that that would foster greater understanding of autism and in tandem with that, ideally in a rightly ordered world, greater acceptance of autism. And the self help content where I write about self esteem building, rising above bullying, how I was able to develop certain social skills, workplace success, marriage, parenting, both from the perspective of me as a son to my parents as well as me later in life being a father to my son, those really are the primary self help areas. Again with the hope that the reader might see value in some of the ideas and insights that I Share in those areas to carve out a better life for him or herself. So it’s hybrid, memoir, self help all rolled into one.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, I think you did a brilliant job. It’s fascinating, right, just to get a peek behind the curtain, if you will, on how your life has transpired and all the people that have played such an important role, like you’ve already mentioned. And what do you think the best thing about being an author is to date, if this is your first book?

Sam Farmer: Well, it’s just being able to share with other people through writing, through author talks, being able to teach, being able to help others and to be able

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Sam Farmer: to do something to, really honor my parents collective legacy as being people in what I consider to be the helping professions. My mother as a social worker, my father is a doctor. And fittingly to write a book that I could dedicate to their collective memory.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well spoken. Thank you. So I’m thinking about advice now and I’m wondering what advice you can share with parents, specifically dads, who perhaps find themselves with a recent diagnosis, autism or something else. What insights can you share?

Sam Farmer: I’m a believer in the neurodiversity paradigm. I’m a part of a worldwide movement around that paradigm which seeks to destigmatize autism and other, challenges that fall under the neurodiversity umbrella, whether it’s ADHD, learning disabilities, etc. And core to that philosophy around neurodiversity really is the notion that what we’ve come to know as these, diagnoses are actually naturally occurring neurotypes that have always existed in the human population, that we are not disordered, we just have a neurotype that is in the minority. By neurotype I mean the way our brains are wired, the way our nervous systems function, and as a result of that, how we interact with the world around us, how we communicate, how we behave, how we socialize and relate to other people, how we think, how we learn. It’s about humanity encompassing a multitude of different neurotypes as opposed to autism being a disorder. And there’s plenty of proof to back that up. So my biggest advice to those who have just learned that they’re autistic is that there’s more than one way to look at something. Depending upon who you are in your lived experiences, you may very well subscribe to what has become known as the medical model around autism, which focuses primarily on pathology and on treatments and on cures, etc. Etc. The problem being that in that narrative, it becomes easy to stigmatize and in some settings to dehumanize us. Where there’s a school two towns over from me here in Massachusetts that resorts to very extreme, very troubling behavior modification type approaches, including electric shock, as, ah, shocking as that sounds, pun intended. But where I can understand that depending upon the nature of one’s challenges, you might either subscribe to the medical model or to the social model, which is more in line with the neurodiversity paradigm. The notion that autism, ADHD, etc. Are these naturally occurring neurotypes. Yes, that are in the minority, but neurodivergence studies have shown account for a good 20% of the human population who are neurodivergent in some way that I would encourage individuals who have just found out they’re neurodivergent to consider looking at it from that perspective, that it’s not like we’re diseased, disordered, or that we are broken and that we need to be fixed, but that we have a naturally occurring neurotype that happens to be in the minority. And that unfortunately, as a result of being in the minority, that by no fault of our own, we happen to be at odds with, with societal expectations around socialization, behavior, communication that were not written with us in mind. But that’s not our fault. And it’s those external influences in society that me

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Sam Farmer: and many others find very disabling. Not so much that all of it is on us, or that our disabilities are intrinsic to us, but that external influences can disable us. But that when we’re in situations and environments where we receive the right accommodations that help level the playing field, that help us to be at our best. Many of us move from feeling disabled to feeling empowered, which goes back to my earlier point. The people with whom we associate will either make us or break us. And so, yes, my challenges are my own, but much of what I find disabling is external to me. And when you reach that conclusion, I have found at least that you stop beating yourself up as much and you acknowledge this greater reality, neurodiversity. And that some neurotypes are discriminated against more than others, but that you’re good the way you are. Your autism, you can look at as a way of being not something that has to be fixed or cured. And that that to me is a more healthy outlook on things that ideally more neurodivergent individuals would adopt that point of view.

David Hirsch: Well, you make it sound so easy to understand. And I Think that, if I can make an observation, you talked about the two models, the medical model and then the social model, and the autism diagnoses. ASD, right?

Sam Farmer: Yep. D for disorder, which I write in the book, is one of the three D’s disability disorder diagnosis. Since writing the book, I’ve come to actually embrace my disability. But at the time that I wrote the book, I hadn’t yet reached that point in my journey where only very recently have I been able, at my ripe young age of 54 years old, relatively recently that it took work, but I was able to conquer the internalized ableism and say, yeah, I’m disabled and I’m good with that. And I wear it like a badge of honor. In many ways, it’s core to who I am.

David Hirsch: Yeah, quite a milestone. Thank you for sharing. So I’m sort of curious to know why you’ve agreed to be a mentor father as part of the Special Fathers Network.

Sam Farmer: Well, again, like I said earlier, if I can teach certain things or help other people to learn certain things about neurodivergence, about as I have been fortunate to be able to pull off, finding a way to be happy and successful in life in spite of all the challenges and adversity that I have faced, if you want to call that mentoring, all well and good, but that’s why I would do it. That’s why I do my advocacy, which I primarily carry out through my writing, through my public speaking and my podcasting, like this one and many others have done. Dave, it’s to help other people. It’s to help other people, and to educate and to try to foster greater understanding and awareness and acceptance and ultimately a sense of belonging in society for those of us who are neurodivergent.

David Hirsch: Well, we’re thrilled to have you. Thank you for being part of the network. Is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up?

Sam Farmer: It’s easier said than done, but it’s very, very important, and it can be frightening to do so. But to be who you are, be who you are, because the cost of not doing so, as I’ve learned from listening to the lived experiences of others and looking back on my own experiences, the fallout from not being who you are

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Sam Farmer: is sizable, and we deserve better than that. We deserve to be able to be who we are without consequence. Again, the key being the people we surround ourselves with, that ideally we can do just that without consequence when we’re around the right people.

David Hirsch: Well spoken. Let’s give a special shout out to our friends at UBS Financial Services for helping connect us.

Sam Farmer: Thank you very much Dave.

David Hirsch: If somebody wants to learn more about about your work, your book, A Long Walk Down a Winding Road or contact you, what’s the best way to do that?

Sam Farmer: The best way to do that is to go to samfarmerauthor.com. There’s a contact page there. You can send me a message I promise to read. Might not be immediate, but I always do my best and you can go there to learn about the book, to sign up for my mailing list, to access all of my best published articles, podcasts, links to videos of author talks, an events, calendar, etc. It’s all at samfarmerauthor.com.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that in the show notes so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to reach out to you.

Sam Farmer: Thank you Dave.

David Hirsch: Sam, thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Sam is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network, a mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax contribution? I would really appreciate your support. Sam, thanks again.

Sam Farmer: Thank you very much, Dave.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturydads.Org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to Facebook group facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david@21stcenturydads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch. Thanks again to Horizon Therapeutics who believe that science and compassion must work together to transform lives. That’s why they work tirelessly to research, develop and bring forward medicines for people living with rare and rheumatic diseases. Discover more about Horizon Therapeutics at horizontherapeutics.com.

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