380 – Spencer Doman Of Philadelphia, PA CEO & 3rd Generation Leader of the Doman International Institute

Transcript:

Tom Couch: Special thanks to Amgen for sponsoring the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Committed to unlocking the potential of biology for patients suffering from serious illnesses by discovering, developing, manufacturing and delivering innovative human therapeutics. Discover more about Amgen’s mission at amgen.com.

Spencer Doman: I feel it’s very important for dads to take an active role in the life of their child with special needs. It’s very important for dads to be actively involved, even if that means evenings, weekends. I think it’s very important for their spouse because I see moms that have dads who are actively involved tend to be happier, they tend to be calmer because they know they’ve got a partner and more confident.

Tom Couch: That’s our guest this week, Spencer Doman of Doman International, a team of child care experts who have been offering support and guidance for parents of kids with special needs for over 70 years. We’ll hear about Spencer and the Doman family mission on this special Father’s Network Dad to Dad Podcast. Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. One brief message. The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads foundation offers. Dads raising children with special needs meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books and sharing, heartfelt challenges. One of the highlights of the year is attending the in-person weekend retreat scheduled this year from September 5th through the 7th. As you think about the year ahead, I invite you to join one of the existing or soon to be formed SFN Mastermind Groups and join a group of like-minded dads to become the best version of yourself. It might just transform your life as it has done for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: Now let’s listen into this week’s conversation between Spencer Doman and and David Hirsch.

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Spencer Doman of, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, who’s the president and CEO of the Doman International Institute where they empower, parents with knowledge and tools to help their children with special needs thrive by teaching parents how to create a loving, stimulating and healthy home so that their children can reach their fullest potential. Spencer, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Spencer Doman: Thanks for having me.

David Hirsch: David, you and your wife Melissa have been married for 15 years. Let’s start with some background. Where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Spencer Doman: Yeah, so I grew up in the suburbs, of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I grew up in a pretty, I think, remarkable environment where both of my parents and also my dad’s parents, so my, paternal grandparents all worked in a clinic with children with special needs. And they were all parent coaches, so they were coaching the parents of these children. As a child growing up, I spent a lot of time in the waiting room, you know, playing with these kids, the waiting room of the clinic. And these were children that might have been diagnosed with autism, or cerebral palsy or down syndrome, developmental delays. So they had a wide range of diagnoses, but they all had one thing in common and that was that their development was delayed. And, that was a really special environment to grow up in. My parents and my grandparents very much had a kind of open door policy where I was told, along with my siblings, you’re welcome even to observe what we do. You just can’t distract. And so it really created, I think, a lifelong respect of children with special needs, but also a respect and loving of their families as well.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, thanks for sharing. my recollection was that you were number two out of the four kids in your family.

Spencer Doman: That’s right, yeah.

David Hirsch: And did your sister have some type of disability?

Spencer Doman: Yeah, that’s right. So my, my younger sister Morgan had the whooping cough at 2 months of age. And, it was very frightening. My parents, I, I was pretty young, I was five years old. So I don’t remember her being ill very well. But for my parents it was very scary because it was life threatening. Hearing your 2 month old baby wheezing all night long. And she survived. But, as she got older, my parents started to notice she was having developmental challenges and she had very little short term memory and reading.

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Spencer Doman: Math skills were. And I’m, I’m not exaggerating here, we’re basically impossible for her to pick up on. And I remember when she was 5, 6, 7 years old, my mom, who was very proactive with wanting to help me and my siblings succeed in school, my mom noticed very quickly, especially because she worked with kids with developmental issues, that my sister was struggling. And I remember my sister, you know, my mom would teach her something in the morning and an hour later she couldn’t remember it, you know, and it was dramatic. And it really took my parents about four years to get my sister to the point where she was succeeding in school at age level so it was until she was about 9 or 10 and then she started to, then she flew, you know, went on to get a university degree, entered a master’s program. Now she works with me. We work together, doing this for other families. But it was tough. It was tough for her and for my parents for that, that period of time.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing. we’ll dive into the work that you’re. Organization your family’s been doing. But you know, it’s not just like a, an ah, intellectual exercise. Right. You’re talking about this from a personal family experience as well.

Spencer Doman: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So, my understanding is that your dad’s still alive.

Spencer Doman: Yes.

David Hirsch: And his name is Douglas.

Spencer Doman: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And I’m sort of curious to know, was he in the same career the entire time or did he get into this, at a later point in time?

Spencer Doman: So he has been doing this from the moment he left university. Basically both he and my mom, work and specialize in mobility development with children. So really focusing on children, for example, with cerebral palsy who have limited mobility spasticity in their muscles, helping these children begin that pathway to walking has been a crucial part of his life. He actually wrote a book called From Immobility to Walking that kind of lays out all the things parents can do to help their children gain mobility at home. So yeah, when I started this work at the age I was still a college student, when I started working at my family’s clinic, I started working with my dad. And he’s both an amazing father, very much involved in our early lives. And also he and I now run this organization together. So we’re colleagues as well.

David Hirsch: So how would you describe your relationship with your dad?

Spencer Doman: My dad made a very purposeful attempt when we were young to be involved in our lives. This mattered a lot to him. He was the kind of dad who you know, came to sporting events, like insisted on it. Even though he was incredibly busy at work. He would make sure that he was involved in our lives. He really enjoyed doing physical activities with us and I think that was a way that we bonded. So for example, he’s a runner. I’ve been a lifelong runner. So when we were kids he would bring us out on runs and we ran together. The other thing my dad did, which I thought was beautiful, is that every morning, you know, we would wake up before my dad. He’s not much of a morning person, but we would climb into bed with him and he’d read books to us. I think a lot of parents and dads also do this at nighttime. For some reason, he chose to do it in the mornings before he went to work. But, you know, again, he was very purposeful in making sure we had time with him. And now that I’m older, I really reflect back and realize that I, think I learned a lot about how to be a responsible, kind, hopefully ethical person. I try to be based on what I observed in my. In my dad. Well, it sounds like he was a great example.

David Hirsch: Yeah, yeah. I was going to say he was a great role model. And you didn’t use the word intentional, but that’s what I interpreted what you were saying. He was very intentional about the time he spent, the lessons he was trying to teach you and to be fully engaged in your lives.

Spencer Doman: Very intentional.

David Hirsch: Any important takeaways, an example or two that come to mind when you think about your dad?

Spencer Doman: He’s always, you know, talked to us about the importance of ethics and being a good person and doing the right thing, even when it’s the tough thing to do. And there have been times in my life where very tough moments where I’ve seen him do the right but difficult thing. You know, someone maybe treats him in a cruel way or in a harsh way, let’s say, and he kind of, in other words, kind of turns the other cheek because he knows it’s the right thing to do in that moment. He’ll make sacrifices if it’s the right thing to do.

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Spencer Doman: And that really, especially when I’ve seen him do the hard. The hard thing the right way, that left an, indelible impression on me.

David Hirsch: Do you want to provide an example?

Spencer Doman: You know, there. There was a time, I’ll be a little vague here with, with details because I don’t want to use people’s names, but there was a moment in my life where someone was actually treating his. His kids unfairly. And it was a person. But, you know, we work together, right? And so this was a person who was very important for the business and a powerful person. And I think that a lot of people in his position would have been like, you know what? Just deal with this, you know, and he was like, no, this is. What they’re doing is wrong. And even if this means we’re going to pay a cost for this in the future, like lose money, it doesn’t matter, because people shouldn’t be treated in this way. So he, you know, basically passed up on, I think, financial gain for doing the right thing.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. So, I’m wondering what role, if Any of your grandfathers played, while you were growing up, first on your dad’s side and then on your mom’s side?

Spencer Doman: My grandfather Glenn, my dad’s dad, was a war hero. He served in the Second World War and was incredibly courageous. And I know that because, first of all, he was highly decorated, but also because when I was young, up until my teenage years, I would go with him to the reunions of his infantry division. He was a company commander of an infantry unit, fought in the Battle of the Bulge in Europe. For those who don’t know much about the European theater During World War II, it was one of the toughest times in late 1944, where the Germans were really hammering the army. And, men at these reunions would grab me, and they’d say, you don’t know how great a man your grandfather is. You know, like, you need to know how. How special. And I. I have to say, like, I. I thought I had a good idea of how great he was, because he was a magnificent grandfather. But that was very important. He. He actually ended up being nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but he didn’t get it. But in that nomination, which we have framed and put up and which was written by a commanding officer, it said not only should he receive the Medal of Honor because of his courage in this specific battle, but also his ability to tell jokes during the battle to his men to keep morale high. So he was just someone who was incredibly courageous. And then when he came home, he was a physical therapist by training. And just to give you an idea, as a physical therapist, the army wanted to make him a medic, but he insisted on being in the infantry. That. That was, you know, the kind of person he was. So when he came home, he. He focused his life mission on helping children with special needs. It. It was like his life passion was understanding the brain. How can we help brain growth and development? In the 1950s, he started to talk about how the brain can be developed through stimulation and challenge. when we challenge our brains, they grow. And that later became known as neuroplasticity. But he was talking about it in the 50s, and by the way, he drew a lot of fire. When he started to say that children with special needs have a much higher innate potential than they were being given credit for, he was really attacked, because at that point, it was. Parents were just told, put your child in an institution. There’s no future for them. And so when he started to say, listen, there are things we can do for these kids, and parents are the most important people in the life of their children, which a lot of professionals didn’t like to hear because they felt it was kind of an attack on them. He drew a lot of fire. And so he was just an incredibly courageous person throughout his whole life, and that really stood out to me.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, he sounds like a larger than life person, not only because of his military credentials, but because of the commitment, the passion that he brought to the work that he was doing on behalf of families, raising kids with disabilities.

Spencer Doman: Yeah.

David Hirsch: How about your other grandfather, Your maternal grandfather?

Spencer Doman: His name was Max. He also was in the army during the second World War. You know, when he got. Got back from the war, he spent a lot of his life actually working in, grocery stores and supermarkets. Because there was a family business, small family, like fruit and vegetable grocer in New York. It went out of business, you know, with large supermarkets. Just tells you a lot about the person he was in the generation right. When the family business closed down, he went to the local supermarket

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Spencer Doman: and said to them, you know, I’d like to apply to become your, like the manager of your produce section. And they said to him, we’re not hiring. And he said, why don’t I work for you for a week and then you can decide if it’s worth it to keep me, you know, for free, you know. And they, they said, okay. And after a week, they kept him. And he worked there for, you know, 30 years, something like that. But, highly intelligent man, hardworking. Yeah. A great person. Yeah, a great, great man. Unfortunately, we ended up losing him to cancer. And unfortunately, he. He was the first, grandparent that I, I lost. But I learned a lot again. Like my father and my other grandfather really taught me the value of hard work, being a good person. Yeah, I was very fortunate. I had three amazing male role models. And I also don’t want to take away very loving as well. Like, you know, were not afraid to tell me that they love me and they were proud of me, and that meant a lot.

David Hirsch: Yeah, well, you hit the trifecta. not too many people can say that.

Spencer Doman: Yeah.

David Hirsch: You know, having three positive adult male role models, and I was a little tongue in cheek, but I was thinking the, Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Spencer Doman: Yeah.

David Hirsch: So, my recollection was you took a BS in history from Temple University. And where, did you see your career taking you when you graduated?

Spencer Doman: Well, I was actually in College. I was 19 when I realized this is what I, I wanted to do with my life. Like, I Wanted to work with my family. I, I studied history, honestly, because it’s just a passion of mine. I love history by the way. I think I get that from my fathers and my, my grandfathers as well, who loved the subject. Even while I was still in college, I started to work in my family’s clinic part time and started training and because we do have a, a rule that there’s, you know, you’ve got to have a university degree, to work in the clinic. And then I went on to get a master’s degree in early childhood education. But that, that was more just to, to help me in my work.

David Hirsch: Where did you get your degree or master’s degree from?

Spencer Doman: Westchester University in suburbs of Philadelphia.

Tom Couch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast in just a few moments. But first this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

David Hirsch: Well, let’s talk about the work of the Doman Institute. It’s been around for something like 70 years. You’ve served 40,000 families. My understanding, and this is just some information I gleamed from the website, that the, the students who are treated develop on average two times faster than not. And that there’s a philosophy and I don’t know if this is how you would characterize the philosophy, but it’s built on three foundational values that special needs children have an innate intelligence and great potential which I think you made reference to earlier. The second is that you support families every step of the way to achieve their potential. And the third is you never give up on special needs kids. So that sounds like it’s just the way that you were raised for that matter, which permeates not only, you know, your parents personal philosophies, but the Institute’s philosophies. Is that an accurate statement?

Spencer Doman: Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

David Hirsch: Okay, so what is it? If you were to break it down, family learns about the Doman International Institute. we’ll just start with a US based family as an example. What does that look like for them?

Spencer Doman: Yeah, well, many parents start with our books because we’ve, we’ve written books, you know, about the program. The most famous one is called the Doman Method from special needs to wellness. and then I’d say the second most famous one is called Answering Autism, which is specifically for parents of children diagnosed with autism. And those books outline the foundations of our program. What we do is we teach parents activities and treatments they can do at home with their children, with the goal of making parents really the best therapists for their children. There’s no one more important in a child’s life than parents. And that’s because parents love their children more than anyone else. They’re more dedicated to their children’s well being than anyone else. And so it makes complete sense. Let’s

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Spencer Doman: educate these people as to what they can do to help their kids. And so we coach parents with holistic solutions to help their children. And the four kind of pillars, let’s say, of the program, just to give people a sense listening of what the program consists of. We have one component which is nutrition and supplementation. We have a second component, which is sensory development, just to talk maybe for a second about why these are so important. So nutrition and supplementation. At this point, many people have heard about the gut brain connection and the great importance that our digestive system and tract has on brain function. And this is because there are actually 500 million brain cells called neurons in our digestive tract. And so the brain and the gut are constantly communicating. And so the funny thing is that old expression of like, I made the decision with my gut, a gut decision. There’s wisdom in that because it’s many people called the gut the second brain. And so the food that, people with special needs, the foods that they eat, have an impact on their brain function. And very often when we do certain kinds of lab testing, we find that they have vitamin deficiencies, mineral deficiencies. And so when we provide certain kinds of supplementation, meaning vitamins, we can often improve the function of their immune system, make them healthier, give them more energy, and, that’s, that’s important. So nutrition and supplementation is one important thing. Sensory stimulation is a second important component because very often children with special needs have visual, hearing and tactile issues, right? And the way we learn from the world around us is through our sensory pathways, right? By watching, listening, feeling. And so if you have barriers in these pathways, those are barriers to learning. We do stimulation, sensory stimulation to improve those pathways. A third, component, David, is mobility development, teaching children how to crawl, creep, walk, run, and also helping them have better coordination and balance. By the way, many children begin our program unable to walk. And I mentioned before my Father’s book From Immobility to Walking. So our goal for those children is to do whatever we can to get them to walk. But even for children who walk and run, often there are mobility exercises that can help develop cognitive function. Right. There’s a reason why when schools eliminate recess, kids test scores go down. It’s because the physical activity kids engage in is good for the learning centers of their brain. And then the fourth component is cognition and speech development. Right. So we focus a lot on teaching children to read, early math skills, activities for developing speech development. These are big, important areas of development that children need to succeed in school and in life. And so at a very young age, we start developing these skills.

David Hirsch: Yeah. So it sounds like it’s directed at early intervention. What I think of a 0 to 3, is that accurate or not?

Spencer Doman: So actually, the average age of children joining our program is six to eight. Six to eight years. But we always say to parents that the younger you can start, the better, because the early years are the most important years for brain growth and development. Now, I say this with hesitation because sometimes people hear that and they think, oh, after six, I hear this a lot from parents. After six, there’s nothing we can really do, you know, and that’s not true. Neuroplasticity, the brain’s ability to change exists throughout our lifetime. And so we can have actually great results with older children, teenagers, even adults. But we do advise parents, the younger you can start, the better.

David Hirsch: So the average age is 6 to 8 years old. And there’s some benefit to, starting earlier. Right, Is what I hear you saying. And I’ve heard in a lot of different situations, those early years are critical from a developmental standpoint. And I think what’s challenging for some families is that, you know, they’re waiting and wondering, you know, there’s, maybe not been a formal diagnosis in the first year, a couple, three years. And then there is a, potential to experience some denial. Right. One or both parents might, be in denial about the situation, and they might not fully embrace what they could or should do. And the way I think about it is that if you were to err, knowing everything I know, you’d want to err on the side of engaging and seeking out resources as opposed to hoping that things will improve on their own. And I’m wondering, do the

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David Hirsch: programs and the services that the Doman organization provide, is it mostly for young boys or young girls? Or is there, you know, it’s about 50. 50. What is it?

Spencer Doman: It’s about 50/50. With certain diagnoses, there might be a larger representation. You know, for example, with autism, with. We have more boys, but that’s more a reflection of just the population at large. It’s more. More boys get that diagnosis than girls. But no, I think it’s about 50/50 on. On the program. And I want to say to that point that you made about the importance of engaging. So, as you mentioned, we’ve seen 40,000 families over, you know, nearly seven decades now. And when a family comes to our clinic, the first question we asked them, or one of the first questions is, who is the first person who suspected that your child had a developmental problem? And wouldn’t you know, in 80% of the time it was parents, not a professional, you know, not doctor, not pediatrician, you know, parents. And often parents actually will bring up those concerns with professionals or sometimes friends or family and kind of get dismissed. You know, they’ll kind of be told, all kids develop differently. You know, just wait. So I tell parents, if your intuition, you know, I honestly can say, I’ve never had a family come to us who said, I suspect our child has an issue. And they didn’t. You know, they. The parents are right. My grandfather Glenn, who started this work, what he used to always say is, if I ever hear that, you know, 99% of moms believe something, doesn’t matter what it is, I’ll put my money on it. You know, and. And we find this today. A lot of especially moms get gaslit. They’re kind of told what they’re observing. that’s not a problem. It’s not real. And, they’re. They’re usually 100, right?

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, I think you emphasized earlier that the parents are the child’s best advocates. Right. And they’re the ones that are with their kids, if not 24, seven, certainly of very large majority of the day. And the professionals, whether it’s in a medical situation or an educational environment, are just making observations with a, typically more limited window of time. So it’s not as if they can’t make educated guests and, you know, from their professional perspective. But, your point about the parents being the best advocates for their kids know, seems to ring true. So, are there any other resources that, our listeners, our parents should be aware of that the Doman International Institute provides?

Spencer Doman: I would definitely recommend that parents check out our website, domaninternational.org because there we publish, for example, our results with children. So we actually write what are the changes that children have. We have a lot of case studies there. So I think our website, along with our books, are a great resource. If parents go to our website, there’s a contact form. And my recommendation is if you want to learn more about our work, fill out the contact form and our representative, Colleen Hudson, will give you a call and talk to you about our program. And I think that’s a really useful thing to do because Colleen will ask you questions about your child to see. Okay, could this program be helpful, but also talk you through what it’s like to come to our clinic? What’s that experience? Like, what might the program look like, like. And we also, David, have a lot of free online resources. So, for example, on the Doman International Instagram and Facebook pages, 11:00am Eastern Standard Time, you know, every week I host a free live webinar where I take questions from parents around the world and, you know, answer questions about development and concerns that they have about their child. And we have many online webinars on our YouTube page. So parents can definitely check out everything that we have online and on social media.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I did notice also on the website there are tabs, one for ADD and ADHD, one for autism, one for brain injury, one for cerebral palsy, one for epilepsy, one for genetic disorders, one for learning difficulties, and another for trisomy 21. So it’s not as if it’s one size fits all. There’s different resources for individuals that have different, situations or conditions.

Spencer Doman: For sure.

David Hirsch: You also mentioned that, it’s an international organization. And I’m wondering, what does the Doman International Institute footprint look like outside the U.S.

Spencer Doman: Yeah, so we actually have 10 different locations around the world where we’re seeing families. Three in the United States and then seven locations outside. So, for example, we see families in other countries. We have a center in Italy, for example, we have a center in India. And then we see families

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Spencer Doman: in countries like Serbia and Croatia, Australia, New Zealand. And sometimes people ask, why those locations? Interestingly, it’s just because that’s where we have a large number of families. And so word spreads quickly in certain places. And, at a certain point, families will say to us, well, hey, instead of us getting on airplanes and all flying to Philadelphia, why don’t you come, you know, to us? So, for example, our second biggest location is in Italy in Pisa. And that just happens to be because, Italian families in the 1990s said, hey, we, we want you to, to come here. And we’ve been going there for 30 plus years. So, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting how that’s worked out. But, we are proud to be an international organization and we have, we have staff also in these different locations around the world.

David Hirsch: Yeah, I was going to ask how you bridge the language barrier. I know that wouldn’t be a big deal in, say, Australia, New Zealand or maybe India, because there’s a lot of English speakers there, but maybe not so much so in Italy, Serbia, Croatia, as a matter of fact.

Spencer Doman: Yeah. So translators, we have translators in the office with us and the families who are interpreting things for us. And we’re very serious about getting good interpreters because anyone who’s ever worked with translators knows if you have someone who’s not doing a good job, it can really. Especially when you’re trying to give a parent very important information for their child, you need a good, good translator.

David Hirsch: Yeah, you mentioned there’s three locations in the U.S. there’s obviously the home base, if you will, there in the Philly, Philly suburbs. where are the other two locations?

Spencer Doman: So we don’t have actual permanent office space, but we see families at certain times of the. In Miami, Florida, and in Santa Barbara, California. And that’s just because we have a large number of Floridians. And, we also, a lot of Latin American families come to see us in Florida. And California is basically our west coast, location.

David Hirsch: Gotcha. So I’m thinking about advice, and I’m wondering what, advice you might be able to share with parents, specifically dads, as it relates to tapping into the resources that we’re talking about.

Spencer Doman: Well, you know, I think for dads, I have a few recommendations. First of all, I’ll just repeat what I said earlier. Trust your instinct, trust your gut. It’s very important, you know. Second, I will say over 90% of the time in our experience, moms are the primary caregiver for the child with special needs. And so it’s very important, I feel. Now, of course, there are circumstances where we will have stay at home dads and sometimes even single fathers. But the majority of the times, it’s moms who are the primary caregivers. And for that reason, because we’re teaching parents at home treatments and activities, a lot of the time, moms are doing the majority of it. But I feel it’s very important for dads to take an active role in the life of their child with special needs. And I have sometimes seen dads who. They will even say to me when I say, look, I think it’s important for your Child and for your wife to be more involved. Sometimes they’ll say something like, you know, Spencer, my role is to go out and earn money so my wife can do these treatments with our child. And while of course that is a crucial role, I feel like it’s very important for dads to be actively involved, even if that means evenings, weekends. I think it’s very important for their spouse because I see moms that have dads who are actively involved tend to be happier, they tend to be calmer because they know they’ve got a partner and more confident. And, what I will say is that also translates into I find better results for the child themselves because if mom feels supported, you know, child has more wins. and mom can also, as any parent of a child with special needs knows there’s a lot of, a lot of hard work, a lot of challenge in this. And so this is a, even though it’s a cliche, this is a marathon, it’s not a sprint. And so, I find that when mothers feel secure and supported, they can keep fighting the good fight longer. And that’s really important. And then from the child standpoint, I think dads very often bring things to the table that come more naturally to them. Sometimes it’s a playful aspect, you know, where they can engage. Because very often we’re teaching families physical activities. And I’ll find

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Spencer Doman: that very often dads will bring a kind of spark to it and say, come on kid, let’s do this. And the kid’s like, all right, dad, let’s do this, when they might give mom a little bit more resistance, you know, and also because they may not see dad as much as mom having the parent that they love and adore, but they don’t spend as much time with showing up and saying, all right, let’s do this. It’s meaningful, you know, as compared to the person that you’re with most of the day. So I tend to find children actually are more collaborative with the treatments, which is important, and happier and more fulfilled when dads are actively involved.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. That’s consistent with my, broader understanding of education, which is that when both parents are involved, because like you were saying, in most cases the moms are there involved in the kids education, healthcare needs. It’s not as common for the dads to be actively involved in the education of their children, but when they are, educational outcomes go up and in some cases dramatically. And a lot of things that are tripping up these kids, tripping up the families like, crime and incarceration, drug and alcohol abuse, teen suicide and pregnancy. All those things go down. Right. Because both parents were actively involved in their child’s education. And I can’t emphasize enough. Right. The importance of dads not just being supportive of mom. Right. Like you were saying, not just being the financial breadwinner. That’s important too. I don’t want to take anything away from that, but, to roll our sleeves up and to be present physically, emotionally and spiritually in our kids lives as consistently as we can be. And you know, it’s not only for the benefit of the children, which is the most important thing, but it’s to the benefit of the spouse, if not the mother of your child, if you’re not married. And it’s also good for you, right, to have these connections that you’re building from a very early age, you know, with your children. And you know, it seems like, well, it might not seem like you’re making a difference on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis. But you know, if you are playing the long game, which I heard you saying, right. This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. You know, it’s better to be doing this together and share the responsibility and it does take the burden off. Right. the moms. So I don’t want to think in terms of it being respite, but there is an aspect of that, when both parents can be involved and maybe even tag teaming, as opposed to, you do this, I do that. The divide and conquer strategy. So it’s not one size fits all. Every family is a little bit different. It’s different if you have one child versus two children versus three, five, six more children. Right. You just have to come up with a strategy that works for your family. But, anyway, super excited about, the work that you do and the influence that you’ve had on these 40,000 families. I’m curious to know if there’s anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up.

Spencer Doman: I just maybe finishing off on that last point, I think especially in the case where mom is the primary caregiver, I think it’s very important that. Similar to how that mom is often the primary advocate for the child. You mentioned before about the importance of advocating. I think that’s very important. I think that it’s important for dads to advocate for the moment and really make sure that if she needs, has specific needs that are challenging for her to communicate with others, look out for how you can help with that, you know, if it’s something like, we really need to ask the doctor this question, right? Or I really need this neighbor to stop stopping by all the time, whatever it is, it could be something big or it could be something small. I think having a spouse who’s willing to kind of step in and say, let me help with that, and kind of unload this burden that was, as we all know in life, sometimes we, we have big challenges that we face, but it’s like the tiny things that drive us absolutely nuts, you know, and we say, I just can’t handle that. I think having dad say, hey, let me take some of these things off your shoulders. Let me communicate with that person. Let me set up this appointment. Let me. I think that makes a big, big difference, 100%.

David Hirsch: So if somebody wants to learn more about the Doman International Institute, the books, other resources, or to contact you, Spencer, what’s the best way to do that?

Spencer Doman: So I’d recommend going to domaninternational.org our website, and filling out the contact form. If you want to email us, you can send an email to info@domaninternational.org but I’d probably recommend go to the website just in case you make a misspelling or something. If you go to the website, you fill out the contact form,

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Spencer Doman: we’ll reach out to you and get a hold of you.

David Hirsch: I’ll be sure to include that information in the show notes. It’ll make it as easy as possible. Spencer, thank you again for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Spencer is just one of the individuals who’s part of the Special Fathers Network mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21stCenturyDads.org thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3, not, for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax deductible contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Spencer. Thanks again.

Spencer Doman: Thanks for having me, David.

Tom Couch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21stCenturydads.org.

David Hirsch: And if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david@21stCenturyDads.org.

Tom Couch: The Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast was produced by me, Tom Couch. Thanks again to Amgen. Committed to unlocking the potential of biology for patients suffering from serious illnesses by discovering, developing, manufacturing, and delivering innovative human therapeutics. Discover more about Amgen’s mission at Amgen.com.

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