417 – Patton Dodd of San Antonio, TX, Executive Director of the H.E. Butt Foundation, Author & Father of Three

Transcript:

Patton Dodd shares his thoughts on fatherhood and embracing the dad you have

Patton Dodd: I did have a model. I mean, I had a model of persistent love, and that was my mom. My mom was a strong presence, a loving presence, and a consistent presence. She was really the inverse of her husband in a lot of ways. And so I didn’t have a model to draw on for being a father, but I did have a model to draw on for being a loving parent in general.

David Hirsch: That’s our guest this week, Patton Dodd, a longtime journalist, essayist, and author who wrote the book the Father your Get and the ones you make believe in and become. We’ll hear Patton Dodd thoughts on fatherhood and embracing the dad you have or that you want to be. That’s all on this Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: Dad to the dad. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, hard and home.

Tom Couch: Now say hello to the founder of the Special Fathers Network and host of the Dad to Dad Podcast, David Hirsch.

The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group is free for the first 30 days

David Hirsch: Hi, I’m David Hirsch, host of the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network Mastermind Group experience is the most comprehensive program the 21st Century Dads foundation offers dads raising children with special needs, meet virtually on a weekly basis and form meaningful relationships while sharing weekly wins, discussing books, and sharing heartfelt challenges. The Mastermind group is free for the first 30 days. Stop trying to figure out things on your own. I invite you to join one of the existing Special Fathers Network Mastermind groups. You’ll meet some extraordinary dads, exchange a lot of best practices, and recharge your fatherhood battery for the journey ahead. it might just transform your life like it’s done for so many others. For more information, please see the show notes or simply go to 21stCenturyDads.org.

David Hirsch: Great dads are present. 247365.

David Hirsch: Now let’s listen in to this conversation between Patton Dodd and David Hirsch.

Patton Dodd is executive director of H.E. Butt Foundation

David Hirsch: I’m thrilled to be talking today with Patton Dodd, of San Antonio, Texas, who is executive director of the H.E. Butt Foundation, author and father of three. Patton, thank you for taking the time to do a podcast interview for the Special Fathers Network.

Patton Dodd: Thank you. I’m happy to be with you all today.

David Hirsch: You and your wife Michaela have been married for 26 years and the proud parents of three children, Isabel, 22, Henry, 18, and Louisa, 15. Let’s start with some background. where did you grow up? Tell me something about your family.

Patton Dodd: Sure, yeah. I was born in Nashville, Tennessee, and I grew up most of my childhood in Jackson, Tennessee, Huntsville, Alabama, and then California and then Colorado. We moved around quite a Bit, but the Deep south is kind of home. Home for myself and my parents. And yeah, I had a mom and a dad who, were together all through my life. they split later, but they were together as they were raising me and my sister, who was five years older and her name is Casey. So, yeah, those are my people.

David Hirsch: Excellent. So out of curiosity, what does your dad do for a living?

Patton Dodd: All kinds of things. And nothing. And I know I’ll get more into this, but he was. He was a mess of a man. He was a salesman, he was a preacher for a while. He. He did real estate. He eventually worked at a community college in Colorado. Got his master’s later in life and taught for a while and then ran like an adult education program. But he was in and out of work my whole life and trying to. Yeah. Figuring himself out the whole way through.

David Hirsch: So from one perspective, he was a jack of all trades.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, right. That’s the positive spin.

David Hirsch: Well, again, the glass is either half full or it’s half empty.

Patton Dodd: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Thank God there’s a glass.

Patton Dodd: Yeah. Indeed.

David Hirsch: Okay, maybe we’ll get into it a little bit more with the book.

When you think about important takeaways from your dad, what comes to mind

But when you think about important takeaways, if you had to summarize them in one or two takeaways from the relationship with your dad, what comes to mind?

Patton Dodd: Oh, man. First of all, negligence. I mean, my dad was. I say he was present but absent. He was in the home again. He was there as my sister and I were being raised, but he was unavailable for the most part. And as I said before, just kind of a mess of a man. Passed out on the couch every. Most every night of my life. And you know, he was also kind of a sweet guy. So that’s kind of the, I mean, ironic flip side. He. When my friends would come over, they thought he was friendly and affable and he was those things. He wasn’t a mean drunk, but he also, because of his addictions, was basically invisible. You know, a ghost kind of, in our household. Hard to pin down, hard to know and couldn’t offer much.

David Hirsch: Yeah, some valuable insights and lessons. Thanks for sharing.

H.E. Butt Foundation oversees communications and runs a storytelling program

And I’m wondering, where does your career take you and how did that lead to the work that you’re doing at, ah, the H.E. Butt Foundation.

Patton Dodd: I’ve always been a writer communications guy. I’ve had a lot of work, different kinds of jobs in this area. I did a PhD. we moved to Boston for a few years, but I did my PhD while still

00:05:00

Patton Dodd: working on the side as a professional Writer and then freelance journalist. I learned kind of the art of pitching articles and getting stories placed. And yeah, did media work in various forms for a long time. And that led. It’s a very circuitous journey. But ultimately it led to what I’m doing now, which is overseeing communications and running what we call a storytelling program. We make media here at the H.E. Butt Foundation and host events about issues of poverty and economic segregation in San Antonio. And at the heart of it all is writing, editing, media making. You know, that’s kind of a through line for all the things that I’ve done.

David Hirsch: How in the world did you find that job? It sounds like it’s perfectly suited for somebody with your background.

Patton Dodd: It’s perfectly suited. It feels like it was made for me. I was invited to speak. So this foundation, one of the things that they have as a retreat center in the Texas Hill country called Laity Lodge. Everyone should look up laitylodge.org and come. It’s a beautiful place. People who don’t know Texas don’t know how special the Hill country is. Even people who know the Hill country don’t know how special Laity Lodge is. It’s a really special retreat center and place of great beauty and opportunities for reflection and silence. And I didn’t know about it either, but in 20, I think 12 or 13, I was invited to come to one of their retreats and speak about, yeah, media, about the work I was doing, media and spirituality. And so I just said yes to the speaking invitation, which I did a good bit of at the time. So it was just another speaking gig for me in that moment. But I got here, got to the retreat center and fell in love with the space, but also the organization that ran it. And there’s a lot more I can say about the HDBI foundation, but it’s, a special organization that I, I knew that weekend. I want to be connected with this place somehow the rest of my life. And I thought that would probably just be as a retreatant, maybe occasional speaker. But eventually I started consulting for the foundation on their communications issues they were facing. And then that a couple years later turned into a, full time gig. So we moved to Texas.

David Hirsch: Wow.

David Hirsch: Well, I’ll definitely include information about the H.E. Butt Foundation and I hope that that will make it as easy as possible for people to find the lady lodge that you were making reference to.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, great. It’s a special place.

How did you and Mikayla meet at Colorado State University

David Hirsch: So I’m sort of curious to know, how did you and Mikayla meet?

Patton Dodd: I had a crush on her on the campus of Colorado State University. And so I didn’t know at the time, but I basically was doing, stalking. I was like, I tell people when I tell our story. I think, like, at dinner tables, that there was literally a moment where I was, like, hiding behind a bush because I knew she was coming out of a certain building on campus, and I was trying to bump into her. I had a mad crush on this woman for most of a year, and I did figure out her schedule and where she was going to be on campus at different times. And, she at one point said to me, I’m bumping into you everywhere this semester. And I’m like, I know, it’s so weird, but, I tracked her down and eventually worked up the nerve to actually ask her out. And so, yeah, we fell in love our last year at csu. We were both English majors, and, you know, shared kind of a love of books and literature and the outdoors. And, yeah, once I finally took a chance on asking her to go out with me, we felt we fell for each other pretty quickly and got, married about a year later. Wow.

David Hirsch: I love that story. So I’ll just say that, you were very intentional.

Patton Dodd: Yeah.

David Hirsch: About making, that, connection.

Your book about fatherhood is expected to be published in 2025

Let’s shift gears and talk about your book, the title of which is the fathers you get the ones you make believe in and become published in 2025. What’s the backstory that led to writing this book?

Patton Dodd: Well, as I said before, my dad was a mess of a man. He died in 2007. He basically drank himself to death. Although he had all manner of diseases and ailments as well. It’s not quite sure what he died of, but he died alone, more or less, friendless and, destitute. And I was really relieved when that happened, frankly, because he was a burden that we were all carrying, and it was nice to move on. And yet, I found later on, of course, you don’t really move on. You do carry these things with you. I was done with him, but he wasn’t done with me, you know? And so, I don’t know. I think I probably knew for a long time that I needed to write about it. Writing is the way that I learn. Well, it’s the way that I learned anything, and it’s certainly the way that I learned about myself. And I had an idea for a book about fatherhood that is basically this one in about 2010, about three years after my dad died. And I pitched it to a friend of mine, a new friend I had just made. At the time, she

00:10:00

Patton Dodd: was an editor at a publisher. And I just said, I have an idea for a book of a memoir about fatherhood. I was calling it Forefathers F O U R Fathers, where you. Where I would talk through four kind of categories of fatherhood. The father you’re born with, the father figures that you make and encounter the idea of God the father, whatever ultimate kind of belief you might have about that, what tradition may have given you, and then becoming a father. And I just thought, maybe that’s a clever book, you know, kind of structure. And I just moved on and never wanted to write it. I really enjoyed, not thinking about my dad. And so I’ve worded it for a long time, and in 2020, I’ve written a few books over the years. And I had a new idea that year, and I put together a book proposal that had nothing to do with my dad. It was actually about It’s a Wonderful Life, the movie, which is my favorite movie. I have a great book idea called It’s a Wonderful Book. It’s kind of a cultural history of that movie and its legacy. And I worked it up and pitched it, my agent and I, and we got a bunch of rejections because everyone says holiday books don’t. I didn’t know this. Holiday books and film books don’t sell. And I was trying to do both at once.

David Hirsch: Well, I wonder if fatherhood books sell. That’s another issue.

Patton Dodd: Well, yeah, I’m finding that out right now. I don’t know yet either. But, anyway, one of the publishers we pitched it to, the editor reached out and said, I want to talk to Patton. And when we got on the Zoom call, she said, actually, I don’t want to talk about. It’s a wonderful book. It’s a great idea, but we’re not going to publish it. However, it was the person I had pitched this idea to many years ago, and I hadn’t talked to her in a long time, but she was like, you know, about 10 years ago, at a bar in Philadelphia, you pitched to me a fatherhood memoir. And if you still want to write that, like, I want to hear about it, we would at least consider it. And I told her I was flattered that she remembered that. but I still didn’t want to think about my dad. And so I said I was kind of crushed, actually, because I wanted to write something, and that’s not the book I wanted to write. And so we got off that Zoom call, and I thought, you know, dang, it, I still don’t think I’m up for that yet, but I don’t know. I was running on a trail a few days later, and, the idea for the first chapter kind of fell into my lap, you know, when I went home that day and in my sweaty, clothes, pounded out like 5,000 words and sent them to this editor. And she loved it and said, yeah, we want to do this. And so that’s kind of how it came together, I guess. I met the moment finally. I knew that I needed to do this for a long time, and finally worked up the nerve to do it.

David Hirsch: Well, that’s an amazing backstory. Thank you for sharing.

You write about accepting the fathers we get versus becoming the fathers you want

you write about the fathers we get versus the fathers we become. In your experience, which is harder? Accepting the father you got or becoming the father you want to be and why?

Patton Dodd: Oh, my gosh, really great question. Becoming. Becoming is always harder. You know, acceptance of the one you got, in some ways is a binary. You can either do it or not. And, for a long time, I think I didn’t, and now I really have. The writing of the book helped me do that, and that was a hard journey, for sure, coming to terms with him. And I’m still on that journey in a lot of ways. But the great surprise of this book for me is that it helped me reckon with something that I had wrestled with for years, but that I had never really named, which is that I have an, enormous amount of insecurity about being a dad. And I love my kids. I would say I’ve always loved being a father. But once I began to tell the story, I realized just how small I have often felt in those relationships, just how uncertain I felt of how to do it, how to be a dad, much less a good dad. That’s something that I am going to need to keep doing for the rest of my life. I’ve come to terms with how scary it is. I’m comfortable with that, fear now because I’ve named it and I’m living with it well, I think. But, yeah, it’s been hard to, admit to myself just how scared I feel about the responsibility of being a father.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thanks for your transparency about the insecurity about being a dad. You know, often referred to as. There isn’t a, like, a playbook. Right, that we could just read and know how to do all this.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, that’s right.

David Hirsch: It’s, lived experience, it’s on the job type of experience. And everybody’s journey is a little bit different based on Your own experience with or without a dad or the other father influences you did or didn’t have. And, you know, the reality of your own situation is that a child, is it multiple children? You know, the relationship with your spouse? I mean, there’s so many variables, so there isn’t like a one size fits all. And I think it. That’s part of the challenge and part of the beauty of it all as well.

Patton Dodd: Right.

David Hirsch: It’s just something that’s evolving that you have to be engaged with.

David Hirsch: We’ll be back with more of the conversation on the Special Fathers Network dad to

00:15:00

David Hirsch: dad podcast in just a few moments. But first, this quick message. Please help 21st Century Dads gather research on families raising children with special needs by having them complete the Special Fathers Network Early Intervention Parents survey. A link to the survey can be found in the show notes. As a token of our appreciation, each person, mom or dad, who completes the survey will receive a great dad coin. Thank you. Now back to the conversation.

Many dads carry unspoken wounds from their own upbringings

David Hirsch: Many dads, carry unspoken wounds like you and I from their own upbringings. How do you see those wounds influencing the way men show up for their children today?

Patton Dodd: Oh, my gosh. I think often they mostly go unrecognized. You know, they show up in, like, perpendicular ways because they haven’t been addressed. They show up as anger and frustration and again, fear. They show up as ignorance, just about how to do things for and with your kids and also papering over that ignorance. I mean, I think my, you know, my chief kind of challenge when I became a father is that I hadn’t been fathered, you know, and I had had up, to that point, pretty weak father figures, as I mentioned before. And so there was just, I don’t know, a lot of empty space in me in terms of, you know, what strings am I pulling on to do this thing that I have to go do now? I think I knew how to be a sort of a decent person. I was also kind of against, I think, traditional, like, masculinity. Like, I. I was turned off by traditional masculinity. And so I think I wanted to resist some of the just classic dadness, you know, like knowing how to do things and fix things and, like, teach your kids things and, like, things that I eventually needed to embrace. But when I was a younger father, I think I wanted to, you know, not have any part of all that. I just, I don’t think that I knew how to even love my kids as a dad. Yeah, I was a swirl of, like, insecurity and, Emotion about all this. Now, this isn’t to say that I was just messing it up all the time. M. I don’t think that I was. I think I was present, and I think I was trying, and I did love my children, but I was really insecure about it all, and I hadn’t really accepted, you know, I don’t know, that identity yet, the dad identity, even though I love these people. Does that make sense? Yeah.

David Hirsch: a thought that comes to mind. I don’t know if it’s accurate, is that, you know, we all have insecurity. I mean, if we’re honest with ourselves.

Patton Dodd: Sure.

David Hirsch: And some of that insecurity leads to, bad behavior, bad decisions. It could be drugs, it could be alcohol, it could be pornography. You know, just dealing with the tension or the uncertainty of it all. And for some reason, you know, your dad sort of went that direction.

Patton Dodd: Yeah.

David Hirsch: And maybe informed by, that experience, you’ve avoided that direction and you’ve gone to this direction. Right. Which is maybe a healthy and a positive way to deal with it. Right. Avoiding the vices that somehow trip up individuals when they’re dealing with their own insecurity or fears. Right. The stress of life.

Patton Dodd: Yeah.

David Hirsch: Maybe that’s one of the benefits that you’ve taken away. Not perhaps consciously in every step of the way, but unconsciously saying, this is what my dad did and how he dealt, with his own insecurities or shortcomings. And I know I don’t want to do that, so, yeah, that makes sense.

Patton Dodd: I did have a model. I mean, I had a model of persistent love, and that was my mom. My mom was a strong presence, a loving presence, and a consistent presence. She was really the inverse of her husband in a lot of ways. And so I didn’t have a model to draw on for being a father, but I did have a model to draw on for being a loving parent in general.

David Hirsch: Yeah, that’s really important. And I would say that I think the closest I’ll ever come to experiencing unconditional love was from my mom.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, same.

David Hirsch: I don’t expect it to show up anywhere else in my life. It just. It would be unrealistic to think that that would exist anywhere else. You’d like to think it would, but probably not.

One of the things that stood out in your book was the PTSD story

So one of the things that really stood out when I was listening to your book, I listened to the audible version, was the PTSD story you told about the lawnmower. And I’m wondering if you could just reflect on that for a moment.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, sure. When I talk about how the first time I went to go see a therapist, I was in my early 30s, and he was asking me to tell him, about my dad and I. And I struggled to know what story to tell. But I had been haunted by this one story at the time, when I was 14 years old and had broken my dad’s lawnmower. And I was hesitant to tell it because

00:20:00

Patton Dodd: it didn’t have any of the classic features of, like, an alcoholic dad story. My dad did not hit me in this story. He berated me and scared me, but I wasn’t even sure if he was drunk when this happened. Like, I was avoiding telling it. And finally I kind of followed my gut instinct and told this story about the time that I. Yeah, I poured oil into the gas tank, stupidly. And broke his. His engine, you know, messed up his engine. And my dad had a really awful reaction to that. We had a terrible confrontation on the front lawn. And, And it just kind of ended without any resolution. And in some ways, that was the worst thing about it. My dad just stormed off. Never talked to me about it again. It was just this thing that I kind of sat with. I wrote that story down when I was writing the Father you get in order to kind of get it out of my system. I wasn’t even planning on using it in the book. I just needed to get it out. I had no intention of actually publishing it, and it wasn’t. And then later, like a couple years later, I was talking to a friend of mine about it, and he was like, don’t you realize that’s your central story? That’s the true line. Like, I had to have someone else reflect that back to me. It really is the core. It is the core tale in the book that everything’s kind of built around. But I was 48 years old when I finally figured that out.

How does faith inform the way men interpret their role as fathers

David Hirsch: So spirituality plays an undercurrent role in your story. How does faith inform the way men interpret their role as fathers? whether they are religious or not, for that matter?

Patton Dodd: Well, I think that’s highly contingent on the person and their own experience with an intersection with faith and religious environments. For me, that’s a really thick story because I’ve kind of been religion obsessed my whole adult life. You know, I mentioned that I had a conversion experience early in college. I had a very fervent, clear black and white faith for a while, and then I lost my faith because I couldn’t figure out how to be intellectually honest about what I saw, like, in the Bible and at church and still believe. And I figured I would be becoming an atheist or an agnostic. And then I ended up studying religion, you know, as an academic. I got a PhD in religious studies and I taught religion for a while and, and then when I was a journalist, I mostly covered religion. And so I eventually realized I’m just kind of obsessed with. I’m a religion nerd. I just, I love this stuff. I love thinking about it. Even when I didn’t believe. I read theology. And eventually I found that I, I couldn’t let it go, that it’s in me, you know, that I, I’m a prayer. Like I just am. Whether I wanted to be or not, I would find myself praying. And I talk about this in the book. Ultimately, that’s the gift that my mom gave me is that that faith, like, she, she kind of made it something I wasn’t gonna be able to avoid because she had a very gentle, generous, you know, sense of faith and of who God, who God the Father was.

David Hirsch: So much of fatherhood work centers on repair and redemption. do you believe fathers can ever finish becoming the dad they aspire to be, or is it always an unfinished project?

Patton Dodd: It’s always unfinished. I think if you’re lucky, it’s always unfinished because that means you’re still in relationship with these people that you’re fathering. You know, my greatest, I think, anxiety at this point is that eventually my kids don’t want anything to do with me. That happens a lot, you know, as we.

David Hirsch: Part of the goal though, honestly, which is, hey, you’ve given them everything they need and they’re totally independent or not dependent for sure.

Patton Dodd: Yes.

David Hirsch: And, you know, it’s, it’s part of a paradox in life, I think. Right.

Patton Dodd: Well, I, and I’ve been learning now that I have a 22 year old and then a son who’s also in college and away from home to parent from a distance and to do a lot of letting go and to encourage independence, all that is happening. But I just want, I want some kind of relationship. You know what I mean? I don’t want to, I don’t want to place heavy expectations on them for relationship. I’m, hoping they choose relationship. But a lot of my peer, most my parents are gone, so I don’t have to work on this. But a lot of my friends who are middle aged have very complicated, to say the least, relationships with their aging parents. In some cases, they want nothing to do with them anymore, which is where I eventually got to with my dad. And I’m just hoping that I have a different story. I’m hoping that I get to keep learning about fathering at different stages, including being an elderly man who still gets to be a dad, you know, in some way, just by being in relationship with his children that they’re choosing. That’s the. That’s the hope that I have.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, one of the things I think you can look forward to, God willing, is that you would become a grandfather.

Patton Dodd: Heck, yeah. Yes.

David Hirsch: You know, put on a whole new Persona. Right. You know, get a second bite at the apple, if you will.

Patton Dodd: Yeah, I look forward to that.

Patton Dodd: It does me a lot of good just to know

David Hirsch: Is there anything else you’d like to.

Patton Dodd: Say before we

00:25:00

Patton Dodd: wrap up? I, have been delighted to learn about you and the conversations that you’re hosting here. And so it gives me. It does me a lot of good just to know that spaces like this exist. And so, yeah, I just want to thank you, really, for what you do and for the voices that you invite and for dedicating so much time and space to these kinds of stories and conversations. It’s really vital work.

David Hirsch: Yeah. Well, thank you for that compliment. It means a little bit more coming from you just because of your expertise in storytelling. So I really appreciate that. If somebody wants to contact you, learn about your work, what’s the best way to do so?

Patton Dodd: I have a substack so you can look up Patton Dodd on substack. Right now. It’s called the father you get. Because that’s the title of my book. I may rebrand it over time. Patentod, dot com is my website, and I’m on Instagram, but I’m not a great social media guy, but I am occasionally, posting on Instagram, and then the book is available, really, wherever there’s an audible version. You know, any. Any bookstore can get it for you, and of course, the big online retailers have it as well.

David Hirsch: I’ll try to include all that information and then some in the show notes, so it’ll make it as easy as possible for somebody to follow up.

Patton Dodd: Great. Thank you, Patton.

David Hirsch: Thank you for your time and many insights. As a reminder, Patton is just one of the dads who’s part of the Special Fathers Network mentoring program for fathers raising a child with special needs. If you’d like to be a mentor father or are seeking advice from a mentor father with a similar situation to your own, please go to 21st Century Dads.

David Hirsch: Ah.org.

Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising special needs

David Hirsch: Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the Special Fathers Network Data dad podcast. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. As you probably know, the 21st Century Dads foundation is a 501c3 not for profit organization, which means we need your help to keep our content free to all concerned. Would you please consider making a tax equal contribution? I would really appreciate your support, Patton. Thanks again.

Patton Dodd: Thank you. Great to be here. Dad.

David Hirsch: to the dead. You’re not on your own. We walk this road together, heart and home.

David Hirsch: And thank you for listening to the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast. The Special Fathers Network is a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs. Through our personalized matching process, new fathers with special needs children match up with mentor fathers in a similar situation. It’s a great way for dads to support other dads. To find out more, go to 21st.

David Hirsch: Centurydads.Org and if you’re a dad looking for help or would like to offer help, we would be honored to have you join our closed Facebook group. Please go to facebook.com groups and search dad to dad. Lastly, we’re always looking to share interesting stories. If you’d like to share your story or know of a compelling story, please send an email to david2stcenturydads.org the dad.

Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast features great dads discussing football

David Hirsch: To dad podcast theme was written and performed by Shane Madden. The show was produced by me, Tom Couch. Tune in again next week for another intriguing conversation on the Special Fathers Network Dad to Dad Podcast.

David Hirsch: Through every season, in every stride, great dads are present. 247-365-24-7365.

00:28:17